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Eek gad Roger you hardly had time to contiplate those scriptures I gave before the Lord.
Beleive as you will , but to me you jumped from one error to another and just as you could not see UR for a time because of the writings of men you cannot see God has NOTHING to do with evil because of the writings of men.
HEAR HIM brother and put the writings of men aside.
Because of my perception that God has two wills, His "decretive" will and His "preceptive" will, I do not see "those scriptures" as contradicting my belief that God has EVERYTHING to do with evil.
I believe the following will always remain true.
All of us (including Adam and Eve) always, without exception, choose (reflexively, or, after due deliberation) in the direction of whatever is having the strongest influence on our mind as being the most persuasive reasons why we prefer one choice the most instead of another. In the split-second in time that we actually make a choice, it is not even possible that we could have chosen any differently.
Therefore, as legoman pointed out, no one has a "free" will.
Instead, everyone has an "influenced" will.
It was God's "decretive" will that the serpent was the strongest influence in Adam's decision to go against God's "preceptive" will.
But because it is also God "decretive" will that no one perishes or stays in a lost condition (same Greek word) no one will stay lost.
Because of my perception that God has two wills, His "decretive" will and His "preceptive" will, I do not see "those scriptures" as contradicting my belief that God has EVERYTHING to do with evil.
I believe the following will always remain true.
All of us (including Adam and Eve) always, without exception, choose (reflexively, or, after due deliberation) in the direction of whatever is having the strongest influence on our mind as being the most persuasive reasons why we prefer one choice the most instead of another. In the split-second in time that we actually make a choice, it is not even possible that we could have chosen any differently.
Therefore, as legoman pointed out, no one has a "free" will.
Instead, everyone has an "influenced" will.
It was God's "decretive" will that the serpent was the strongest influence in Adam's decision to go against God's "preceptive" will.
But because it is also God "decretive" will that no one perishes or stays in a lost condition (same Greek word) no one will stay lost.
Roger your belief and that of Israel of old are the same, they also beleived God was a God of good and evil. And it was their view of the Father Jesus came to correct.
That many still believe the OT view of the Father show that they are still under the vail brother and will remain so until they stop listening to everyone else (and that includes Moses and Elijah) and start to listen to only Christ. He is the authority on the Father and no one else. the Father did not say HEAR HIM for nothing brother the Father said HEAR HIM because all others do not know me.
Rodger your belief and that of Israel of old are the same, they also beleived God was a God of good and evil. And it was their view of the Father Jesus came to correct.
That many still believe the OT view of the Father show that they are still under the vail brother and will remain so until they stop listening to everyone else (and that includes Moses and Elijah) and start to listen to only Christ. He is the authority on the Father and no one else. the Father did not say HEAR HIM for nothing brother the Father said HEAR HIM because all others do not know me.
I fail to see how any of what you said here contradicts this logically irrefutable fact.
All of us (including Adam and Eve) always, without exception, choose (reflexively, or, after due deliberation) in the direction of whatever is having the strongest influence on our mind as being the most persuasive reasons why we prefer one choice the most instead of another. In the split-second in time that we actually made a choice, it is not even possible that we could have chosen any differently.
Therefore, as legoman pointed out, no one has a "free" will.
Instead, everyone has an "influenced" will.
It was God's "decretive" will that the serpent was the strongest influence in Adam's decision to go against God's "preceptive" will.
But because it is also God "decretive" will that no one perishes or stays in a lost condition (same Greek word) no one will stay lost.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 08-04-2011 at 06:00 AM..
I fail to see how any of what you said here contradicts this logically irrefutable fact.
you fail to see because of the vail brother. No one can reconcile the God of the OT with the God Jesus proclaims and the reason is because they CANNOT be reconciled. The God of the OT comes from people who were under a vail of ignorance, which vail is done away with when we listen to Christ.
OT God, good and evil
The God Jesus proclaimed--GOOD, GOOD , GOOD
As long as one sees God as good and evil one is still under the vail.
My God is equally responsible for both good and evil
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
you fail to see because of the vail brother. No one can reconcile the God of the OT with the God Jesus proclaims and the reason is because they CANNOT be reconciled. The God of the OT comes from people who were under a vail of ignorance, which vail is done away with when we listen to Christ.
OT God, good and evil
The God Jesus proclaimed--GOOD, GOOD , GOOD
As long as one sees God as good and evil one is still under the vail.
My God is equally responsible for both good and evil.
The introduction of evil into creation was His idea.
When all of the reasons why He allowed evil to prevail have been achieved, God will eradicate it out of existence.
Personally, I hope the so called "vail of ignorance" is never lifted from me.
I might add that without the contrast of evil, we could never have known what good is.
IMO that is why the temporary prevalence of evil is a necessity ordained by God.
Through the interplay of good and evil God will achieve far more glorious results for everyone than if He had not let evil temporarily prevail. He won't just do a "patch-up job" and bring things back to the way they were before the fall.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 08-04-2011 at 07:13 AM..
My God is equally responsible for both good and evil.
The introduction of evil into creation was His idea.
When all of the reasons why He allowed evil to prevail have been achieved, God will eradicate it out of existence.
Personally, I hope the so called "vail of ignorance" is never lifted from me.
I might add that without the contrast of evil, we could never have known what good is.
IMO that is why the temporary prevalence of evil is a necessity ordained by God.
Through the interplay of good and evil God will achieve far more glorious results for everyone than if He had not let evil temporarily prevail. He won't just do a "patch-up job" and bring things back to the way they were before the fall.
God will forgive this common misunderstanding Rodger. You are correct that it is necessary that we learn to distinguish good from evil based on love of life . . . but God did not create evil. All the Omni's and their attendant paradoxes are a creation of humans establishing the qualifications for God to be God. They are nothing but human hubris and vanity. Our ignorant ancient ancestors attributed everything to God by default . . . but their savage primitive interpretations are wrong. We do not decide what God is . . . God is whatever God is . . . not what we think He MUST be based on the "precepts and doctrines of men."
you fail to see because of the vail brother. No one can reconcile the God of the OT with the God Jesus proclaims and the reason is because they CANNOT be reconciled. The God of the OT comes from people who were under a vail of ignorance, which vail is done away with when we listen to Christ.
OT God, good and evil
The God Jesus proclaimed--GOOD, GOOD , GOOD
As long as one sees God as good and evil one is still under the vail.
God will forgive this common misunderstanding Rodger. You are correct that it is necessary that we learn to distinguish good from evil based on love of life . . . but God did not create evil. All the Omni's and their attendant paradoxes are a creation of humans establishing the qualifications for God to be God. They are nothing but human hubris and vanity. Our ignorant ancient ancestors attributed everything to God by default . . . but their savage primitive interpretations are wrong. We do not decide what God is . . . God is whatever God is . . . not what we think He MUST be based on the "precepts and doctrines of men."
I'm glad God will forgive me, because I shall probably die believing that God did create evil (Isaiah 45:7) "I create evil"
Strongs #7451 "ra" bad - natural and moral evil, including calamity and wickedness
IMO God created every kind of evil.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 08-04-2011 at 01:18 PM..
I'm glad God will forgive me, because I shall probably die believing that God did create evil (Isaiah 45:7) "I create evil"
Strongs #7451 "ra" bad - natural and moral evil, including calamity and wickedness
IMO God created every kind of evil.
The OT scriptures are merely inspirations of God interpreted by ignorant savages under fear and superstition about God, Rodger. They are NOT the Word of God except when they talk about Jesus who is the ONLY Word of God. The veil of ignorance over the OT beliefs about Jehovah is why Christ was needed to reveal God's TRUE NATURE. I understand you will retain the ancient ignorance of the OT and I understand why. Peace, brother.
The OT scriptures are merely inspirations of God interpreted by ignorant savages under fear and superstition about God, Rodger. They are NOT the Word of God except when they talk about Jesus who is the ONLY Word of God. The veil of ignorance over the OT beliefs about Jehovah is why Christ was needed to reveal God's TRUE NATURE. I understand you will retain the ancient ignorance of the OT and I understand why. Peace, brother.
It feels good to be understood.
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The fallacy of "free" will
My God is equally responsible for both good and evil
It feels good to be understood
