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I'm glad God will forgive me, because I shall probably die believing that God did create evil (Isaiah 45:7) "I create evil"
Strongs #7451 "ra" bad - natural and moral evil, including calamity and wickedness
IMO God created every kind of evil.
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Roger the word create had the original meaning of to separate or divide (even though our Jewish friend here will tell you otherwise) this accounts for the definitions of cut down or cut out.
So put that definition in the scripture brother for a whole new understanding.
I form light and cut down darkness; I make peace, and cut down evil; I the Lord do all these things.
David said create in me a clean heart.
This creation of a clean heart is done by way of circumcision, the cutting away of the foreskin of the heart.
Brother the translators could not understand how cut down or cut out could explain bara and is the reason you will not find it translated that way in any bibles. However, when one looks at the scripture for bara it can easily be seen bara does have to do with division by way of cutting down or cutting out.
Light cuts down darkness brother and peace cuts down natural and moral evil, including calamity and wickedness.
My God is equally responsible for both good and evil
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Roger the word create had the original meaning of to separate or divide (even though our Jewish friend here will tell you otherwise) this accounts for the definitions of cut down or cut out.
So put that definition in the scripture brother for a whole new understanding.
I form light and cut down darkness; I make peace, and cut down evil; I the Lord do all these things.
David said create in me a clean heart.
This creation of a clean heart is done by way of circumcision, the cutting away of the foreskin of the heart.
Brother the translators could not understand how cut down or cut out could explain bara and is the reason you will not find it translated that way in any bibles. However, when one looks at the scripture for bara it can easily be seen bara does have to do with division by way of cutting down or cutting out.
Light cuts down darkness brother and peace cuts down natural and moral evil, including calamity and wickedness.
I can't think of a better response than to repeat what I said before.
My God is equally responsible for both good and evil.
The introduction of evil into creation was His idea.
When all of the reasons why He allowed evil to prevail have been achieved, God will eradicate it out of existence.
Without the contrast of evil, we could never have known what good is. IMO that is why the temporary prevalence of evil is a necessity ordained by God.
Through the interplay of good and evil God will achieve far more glorious results for everyone than if He had not let evil temporarily prevail. He won't just do a "patch-up job" and bring things back to the way they were before the fall.
I can't think of a better response than to repeat what I said before.
My God is equally responsible for both good and evil.
The introduction of evil into creation was His idea.
When all of the reasons why He allowed evil to prevail have been achieved, God will eradicate it out of existence.
Without the contrast of evil, we could never have known what good is. IMO that is why the temporary prevalence of evil is a necessity ordained by God.
Through the interplay of good and evil God will achieve far more glorious results for everyone than if He had not let evil temporarily prevail. He won't just do a "patch-up job" and bring things back to the way they were before the fall.
And I'll beleive OUR God when He said everything He created was GOOD.
Bob I don't really have a problem with that understanding, God reasons with us and His reasoning is flawless, but we make the choice if we will follow the flawless reasoning or reject it.
However this is only half the issue here Bob, the other half (the one I most disagree with) is some here beleive that it was Gods will that people perish, that God needs evil to show forth His love.
Brother I know that you use to beleive God planned for man to eat from the tree do you still hold to that view?
Yes Scott I do. I wouldn't go so far as to say God "needs" evil... but I do read that there is no greater love than for a person to lay down his life for his friends and Christ referred to his crucifixion, the time he would lay down His life, as "His glory". So it stands to reason that if God wanted to show forth that kind of unique love and to show His glory... it would require exactly what unfolded.
Also the divine attributes of mercy & forgiveness to be shown would required someone to forgive and be merciful toward. Also, at least as of the time after man sinned, scripture explicitly states that this was God's plan for Christ to die. So the notion that God never makes a plan involving the use evil is not right.
God's plan to introduce evil into His creation was good
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
And I'll believe OUR God when He said everything He created was GOOD.
Everything that God created was good alright, including His eonian plan (which He created) to introduce evil into His creation for the purpose of achieving farmore glorious ends than if He had not allowed the serpent to be the strongest influence in the life of Adam and Eve.
Eph.3:8-11 God's purpose of the eons
Adam and Eve chose what they reasoned to themselves was the choice that they preferred the most. They could not have done otherwise.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 08-05-2011 at 11:18 AM..
Everything that God created was good alright, including His eonian plan (which He created) to introduce evil into His creation for the purpose of achieving far more glorious ends than if He had not allowed the serpent to be the strongest influence in the life of Adam and Eve.
Eph.3:8-11 God's purpose of the eons
Adam and Eve chose what they reasoned to themselves was the choice that they preferred the most. They could not have done otherwise.
All life must grow and mature . . . even species have a maturation cycle to their evolution, Rodger. The serpent is our reptilian brain (limbic system) and in an infant it is completely powerful and controlling of our motivations and behavior. Our soul is a "seed" of consciousness that must grow, learn and mature to increasing control over the drives generated by the serpent. That is why the serpent is the stronger of the influences on our "infant Spirits."
All life must grow and mature . . . even species have a maturation cycle to their evolution, Rodger. The serpent is our reptilian brain (limbic system) and in an infant it is completely powerful and controlling of our motivations and behavior. Our soul is a "seed" of consciousness that must grow, learn and mature to increasing control over the drives generated by the serpent. That is why the serpent is the stronger of the influences on our "infant Spirits."
Yes Scott I do. I wouldn't go so far as to say God "needs" evil... but I do read that there is no greater love than for a person to lay down his life for his friends and Christ referred to his crucifixion, the time he would lay down His life, as "His glory". So it stands to reason that if God wanted to show forth that kind of unique love and to show His glory... it would require exactly what unfolded.
Also the divine attributes of mercy & forgiveness to be shown would required someone to forgive and be merciful toward. Also, at least as of the time after man sinned, scripture explicitly states that this was God's plan for Christ to die. So the notion that God never makes a plan involving the use evil is not right.
Then in effect you do believe God needs evil.
Bob we to are to lay our life down for others, this is the cross we are to bare. You beleive Jesus laid His life down for us when He died on a literal cross. I beleive Jesus laid His life down when He left His glory and came and walked in the likeness of sinful man.
This is the cross we are to bare brother, it is the same cross Jesus bore. So unless we are all going to die on a literal cross, the cross Jesus spoke of cannot be literal.
Everything that God created was good alright, including His eonian plan (which He created) to introduce evil into His creation for the purpose of achieving farmore glorious ends than if He had not allowed the serpent to be the strongest influence in the life of Adam and Eve.
Eph.3:8-11 God's purpose of the eons
Adam and Eve chose what they reasoned to themselves was the choice that they preferred the most. They could not have done otherwise.
That is the same as calling good evil and evil good, something we are not to do.
Not necessarily. I gave an argument why God might have wanted to use evil, but I wasn't going so far as to conclusively say God had to do it that way and no other way was possible.
Quote:
Bob we to are to lay our life down for others, this is the cross we are to bare. You beleive Jesus laid His life down for us when He died on a literal cross. I beleive Jesus laid His life down when He left His glory and came and walked in the likeness of sinful man.
This is the cross we are to bare brother, it is the same cross Jesus bore. So unless we are all going to die on a literal cross, the cross Jesus spoke of cannot be literal.
I agree there are many ways to lay down your life, and the requirement is not literal. But all of them deal with sacrifice, forgiveness, and mercy toward sinners and toward those who have wronged you. Jesus was our example... when he was threatened, reviled, etc He did not return the same. That example seems to necessitate things like threatenings and revilings - in other words evil.
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My God is equally responsible for both good and evil
God's plan to introduce evil into His creation was good
