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Old 07-27-2011, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,029 posts, read 1,494,457 times
Reputation: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
From what I gather:
We agree that God is love.
We agree that God desires all to be saved





UR rejects Jesus by rejecting what was also clearly revealed: (which we disagree on)
  1. UR claim that people can't refuse and reject God's will.
  2. UR claim that even if you refuse\reject Jesus in this life, that it isn't the final time for being saved.
  3. "all" equals "all inclusive"
  4. UR offers a different gospel for those who die remaining in their sin of unbelief
  5. UR rejects God's wrath remains
  6. UR ultimately Jesus' death on the cross unnecessary
  7. UR ultimately is by nature accusational of God being unfair, unjust, a failure.
  8. UR allows any name to be worshipped and praised on the lips of people and God will still be loving to the person.
  9. UR minimizes the eternal seriousness of sin\unbelief
  10. UR claims that every knee will bows do so because of belief.......(what do the athesists do if they maintain their athesism?)
Sorry but that show how little you understand the UR message and what we do teach. Nu.2 and 10 might be correct, except I would say every knee will bow in willing worship, but the rest is just garbage.

But that is just me, maybe others would agree with the other 8 but they will have to speak up for themselves.

So speak up guys, do any of you agree with any of the 10 and if so which ones.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,447 posts, read 11,754,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Nice try Roger... I focused on some the Satanic lies.

I didn't once address "free will or choice".
If God is the puppet master and there is no free will, then God's every command and desire concerning humans are moot points. Coming to think of it, everything Jesus said, and the entire Bible would be a moot point.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:57 PM
Status: "ask why me ... rather than not why not them" (set 1 day ago)
 
9,363 posts, read 4,772,530 times
Reputation: 1016
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Sorry but that show how little you understand the UR message and what we do teach. Nu.2 and 10 might be correct, except I would say every knee will bow in willing worship, but the rest is just garbage.

But that is just me, maybe others would agree with the other 8 but they will have to speak up for themselves.

So speak up guys, do any of you agree with any of the 10 and if so which ones.
Then start a new OP stating the opposite.

I suppose I could have included the UR's sure seeks out rooster crows and we don't.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,503,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Nice try Rodger... I focused on some the Satanic lies.

I didn't once address "free will or choice".
But the lack of so-called "free" will is the all important issue.

It's like legoman said
"So people will bring up the "free will" argument claiming that we make choices (therefore we must have free will) or we would be robots without free will, etc. But these are just red herrings. What we actually do is choose according to our nature, and our nature is affected by all the things around us, and the desires and gifts we have been given from birth."

Until God lays hold on us by His saving grace and causes Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, we will remain in the condition of Romans 3:10-18, just like He did for Lydia, Saul of Tarsus, and Nebuchadnezzar.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:03 PM
Status: "ask why me ... rather than not why not them" (set 1 day ago)
 
9,363 posts, read 4,772,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
But the lack of so-called "free" will is the all important issue.

It's like legoman said
"So people will bring up the "free will" argument claiming that we make choices (therefore we must have free will) or we would be robots without free will, etc. But these are just red herrings. What we actually do is choose according to our nature, and our nature is affected by all the things around us, and the desires and gifts we have been given from birth."

Until God lays hold on us by His saving grace and causes Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, we will remain in the condition of Romans 3:10-18, just like He did for Lydia, Saul of Tarsus, and Nebuchadnezzar.

Nebuchadnezzar....? nope.
God also send a delusion to believe the lie.
God also made it so that Pharaoh didn't believe and does with others.

Romans 9:18
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,029 posts, read 1,494,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
If God is the puppet master and there is no free will, then God's every command and desire concerning humans are moot points. Coming to think of it, everything Jesus said, and the entire Bible would be a moot point.


Well Fin freewill is one area I agree with my bro/sis who believe in ET.

If man has no freewill then God is responsible for sin and death.

Scripture says sin is of the devil, thus if God is responsible for sin and death, God and the devil must be one and the same being.

This is the way I look at the freewill issue.

Most here have probably seen the cartoons where an angel is on one shoulder and the devil is on the other shoulder. The angel saying donít do that the devil saying yes do it. The head turns in both direction listening to the one and then the other.

Neither the angel nor the devil makes the choice for man which way he will turn, that choice is up to the man to make, and him alone.

Man is influenced on all sides, but it is man that makes the choice regardless of the influences, not the natures within man. That is why when we listen to Satan instead of God it is sin.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,503,360 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
If God is the puppet master and there is no free will, then God's every command and desire concerning humans are moot points. Coming to think of it, everything Jesus said, and the entire Bible would be a moot point.
IMO that is an ethical opinion that is rendered irrelevant by the fact that we always, without exception, choose in the direction of the strongest influence all of the time; the strongest influence being made up of the reasons why we choose one thing instead of another.

As a UR I believe that salvation is 100% caused by God's grace, plus nothing.

Personally, I believe that God will eventually fit every individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that personís life too.

Then, after God has finished using evil and suffering for the reasons why He allowed them to temporarily exist, He will eradicate them from existence.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,029 posts, read 1,494,457 times
Reputation: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
But the lack of so-called "free" will is the all important issue.

It's like legoman said
"So people will bring up the "free will" argument claiming that we make choices (therefore we must have free will) or we would be robots without free will, etc. But these are just red herrings. What we actually do is choose according to our nature, and our nature is affected by all the things around us, and the desires and gifts we have been given from birth."

Until God lays hold on us by His saving grace and causes Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, we will remain in the condition of Romans 3:10-18, just like He did for Lydia, Saul of Tarsus, and Nebuchadnezzar.
Freewill is making a choice regardless of the natures within us.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,029 posts, read 1,494,457 times
Reputation: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
But the lack of so-called "free" will is the all important issue.

It's like legoman said
"So people will bring up the "free will" argument claiming that we make choices (therefore we must have free will) or we would be robots without free will, etc. But these are just red herrings. What we actually do is choose according to our nature, and our nature is affected by all the things around us, and the desires and gifts we have been given from birth."

Until God lays hold on us by His saving grace and causes Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, we will remain in the condition of Romans 3:10-18, just like He did for Lydia, Saul of Tarsus, and Nebuchadnezzar.


Let me put it this way Roger, you guys believe it is the stronger nature in us that makes the choice.

Well is Christ nature not stronger then satans nature? For sure it is

So how come we all still sin?
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,503,360 times
Reputation: 216
[quote=twin.spin;20205371] Nebuchadnezzar....? nope.

Nebuchadnezzar....? yes
He saw who he described as the Son of God in the fire with the three Hebrew men (Daniel 3:26) and it changed his whole attitude towards the God of Israel when the men were not hurt by the fire. (Daniel 3:28).
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