Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That may be what you are talking about, but that doesn't mean what you believe is correct.
Explain how I changed the meaning of words. I can offer the definition of aionios from strongs and I can show you the scripture that says we put on immortality.
Please offer some kind of substance , otherwise your just making silly claims and saying your right, which doesn't make it so.
You do not think the christian explaination of things is often not convoluted by the same measure you say UR is. I can demonstrate that, your just saying "Uh uh, not so" and not offering anything but your spite.
We listen and disagree. I have always found the Gospel to be easy and simple to understand. Straightforward. No hidden mystery to it.
The UR theology is very complicated and convelouted. And it consists of changing the meanings of words to fit its doctrine. Like saying Blue doesn't really mean blue as we think of colors. Plus UR says nearly all of the major translations of the Bible are wrong. How can so many teams of bible scholars over the last 400 years all be be wrong?
******************
This is what I am talking about. ^^^
Well you indicated that you were honestly looking to see what we beleived concerning this issue.
Seems that some other here were correct, you did not really want to know.
I wanted to know and now I do. I simply disagree. As does Mr. Strong:
αἰώνιος
Lexical form (using TekniaGreek):
aijwvnioV
Greek transliteration:
aiōnios
Transliteration (simplified):
aionios
Strong's number:
166
GK number:
173
Frequency in New Testament:
71
Morphology of Biblical Greek tag:
a-3b(1)
Gloss: eternal, long ago, indeterminate as to duration, eternal, everlasting,
strongs-concordance-166 | New Testament Greek Dictionary for (http://www.greek-dictionary.net/ai%C5%8Dnios - broken link)
One thing to note is that I agree concerning one UR argument that Aionion must only mean the english word age is inaccurate, by the same measure as shown in this definition that you posted, it does not only mean eternal either.
This definition poses no problem to the idea in scripture that God will save all mankind as He has promised.
We listen and disagree. I have always found the Gospel to be easy and simple to understand. Straightforward. No hidden mystery to it.
The UR theology is very complicated and convelouted. And it consists of changing the meanings of words to fit its doctrine. Like saying Blue doesn't really mean blue as we think of colors. Plus UR says nearly all of the major translations of the Bible are wrong. How can so many teams of bible scholars over the last 400 years all be be wrong?
Mr5150, UR theology is not very complicated. What is complicated is unwinding the layers of confusion created by eternal torment theology. Its only through blind acceptance that eternal torment theology can survive. If one applies their critical thinking, it makes no sense at all. With eternal torment, you end up with good news that is not very good at all. A few saved while the rest suffer forever. And God who is all-powerful, and is love, apparently cannot or does not stop man from choosing himself into a state of eternal suffering.
Even with this word "everlasting", it can be plainly seen in the old testament that there are many places that the word should not have been translated as "everlasting". Doesn't this cause your "student of theology" mind to question?
Observe:
Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
Ezekiel: 16:53-55).
Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).
The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).
Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no
more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27 --until--the Lord will
"restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6).
An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):
Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).
The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).
Do you not see a problem here? It is plainly obvious this idea of "everlasting" was inserted into places where it shouldn't be - it was forced into the meaning of olam (Hebrew) and aionios (the Greek equivalent).
I wanted to know and now I do. I simply disagree. As does Mr. Strong:
αἰώνιος
Lexical form (using TekniaGreek):
aijwvnioV
Greek transliteration:
aiōnios
Transliteration (simplified):
aionios
Strong's number:
166
GK number:
173
Frequency in New Testament:
71
Morphology of Biblical Greek tag:
a-3b(1)
Gloss: eternal, long ago, indeterminate as to duration, eternal, everlasting,
strongs-concordance-166 | New Testament Greek Dictionary for (http://www.greek-dictionary.net/ai%C5%8Dnios - broken link)
Mr5150, did you notice that even Mr. Strong uses different definitions for aionios, one meaning eternal, one meaning indeterminate as to duration. That was your thesis against UR in your OP.
But this thread is really about my observation and wanting clairification why the word aiōnion is rendered as age by the UR folk in certain parts of scripture that pertain to judgement and eternal in the parts that talk about the destiny of those who accept Christ. IMO you really can't have it both ways. Regardless of well thought out arguemts provided in UR links. Either the word means eternal or age. Can't have it both ways
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
We listen and disagree. I have always found the Gospel to be easy and simple to understand. Straightforward. No hidden mystery to it.
The UR theology is very complicated and convelouted. And it consists of changing the meanings of words to fit its doctrine. Like saying Blue doesn't really mean blue as we think of colors. Plus UR says nearly all of the major translations of the Bible are wrong. How can so many teams of bible scholars over the last 400 years all be be wrong?
******************
This is what I am talking about. ^^^
I agree with you -- just because the theologians believed that aion and aionios could either be eternal or world or age/s depending on what would make the passage they were translating to make sense does not make those words mean eternal, age, long ago, period of indeterminate length and world at the same time .... the theologians were doing exactly what you are accusing UR believers of doing making the words fit their doctrine .... and UR believers are saying that those words do not mean eternal ----- they always pertain to ages ..... and periods of indeterminate length.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
I wanted to know and now I do. I simply disagree. As does Mr. Strong:
αἰώνιος
Lexical form (using TekniaGreek):
aijwvnioV
Greek transliteration:
aiōnios
Transliteration (simplified):
aionios
Strong's number:
166
GK number:
173
Frequency in New Testament:
71
Morphology of Biblical Greek tag:
a-3b(1)
Gloss: eternal, long ago, indeterminate as to duration, eternal, everlasting,
strongs-concordance-166 | New Testament Greek Dictionary for (http://www.greek-dictionary.net/ai%C5%8Dnios - broken link)
right here in the morphology you quote the theologians are trying to say that it means both of those things, long ago and indeterminate length are not eternal --- as you say "can't have it both ways"
the same as aion which aionios comes from, it does not mean eternal or ever
these 2 words are about the ages some of which are long ago, of indeterminate in length, and some that are still future......
A verse like John 3:16 holds the promise of everlasting (aioónion) life in contrast with "perishing".
I know that there have been some comments posted that attempt to show the 'destruction' and 'punishment' verses to actually refer to a purification or refining, which still ultimately results in that individual's salvation.
But how do we see this idea of "perishing" (apollumi). Jesus tells us in John 10:28 that He gives His sheep "eternal life"...and they shall never perish. This also sets up a contrast, or counter-position...eternal life vs. perishing.
The idea of refinement of purification still would entail having that life, as all would be saved through Christ (where no such contrast would exist).
There's a lot more that can be said regarding this idea of "perishing" in the Bible. But let's work with this for now and see where the discussion leads.
A verse like John 3:16 holds the promise of everlasting (aioónion) life in contrast with "perishing".
I know that there have been some comments posted that attempt to show the 'destruction' and 'punishment' verses to actually refer to a purification or refining, which still ultimately results in that individual's salvation.
But how do we see this idea of "perishing" (apollumi). Jesus tells us in John 10:28 that He gives His sheep "eternal life"...and they shall never perish. This also sets up a contrast, or counter-position...eternal life vs. perishing.
The idea of refinement of purification still would entail having that life, as all would be saved through Christ (where no such contrast would exist).
There's a lot more that can be said regarding this idea of "perishing" in the Bible. But let's work with this for now and see where the discussion leads.
God bless.
One is Dead, having perished, in their sin yet they are still quite alive.
A study in hebrewisms is helpful.
When I say "you're dead" I mean "I'm going to get you."
When I say the wait in traffic was an eternity... It really wasn't.
Eternal in the English dictionary is without beginning or end. Is eternal life/punishment without beginning or end? If not, it cannot mean the modern English meaning of eternal....
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
