Why limit god? (church, scriptures, Jesus, Biblical)

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Sorry you feel that way. We are all children of God. He doesn't love some of us and hate others of us. What kind of a parent would would do that?

Have you forgotten about Jacob and Esau?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Have you forgotten about Jacob and Esau?

Forgotten what about them? And how does this tie to predestination of the "elect"? I really just don't think you and I are ever going to see eye-to-eye on this issue, Richard. There really isn't much point in our discussing it further.

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Whatever helps you sleep at night....

So this is the theology that helps you Calvinists sleep at night?

As a Calvinist you worship a god who limits himself by causing billions of humans to come into existence who, without any say in the matter, are destined to suffer forever, simply because they were born "totally depraved" and are unable to do anything about it because they are not one of the elect.

That was part of the theology that kept me awake at night during my horrific nervous breakdown (1966-78, I'm 72 now).

I was so thankful to learn about the UR point of view!!!

I can only cope with the existence of Calvinist theology by perceiving it as a foil of contrast, a part of the blackest of backgrounds upon which God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation, using the paint brush of His undefeatble grace.

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Whatever helps you sleep at night....

Ditto ... As i'm pretty sure the thought of most of humanity being tortured for eternity doesn't cause you to lose any!

I realize that many Christians take solace in the idea of everlasting hell and the idea that the vast majority of humanity will be tortured for eternity, as if that were the only way their bloody thirst for violent vindication could ever be quenched ... I have even heard many Christians say that "if everyone is saved then salvation is worthless" ...

Its all about the nature the tree and the fruit it bears, one tree the fruit love and peace and life, the other the poisonous fruit of hate and violence and death ... The question is, is torture ever to be deemed as good fruit, or fear for that matter?

You stick with your poison of choice, i'll stick with the fruit of love, and you can accuse me of heresy the whole time if you like ... i'll wear it as a badge of honor.

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Have you forgotten about Jacob and Esau?

IMO, the word "hate" concerning Esau should not take on the American idea that we have of bitter hatred. Here's why I think that.
Luk 14:26 "If anyone is coming to Me and is not hating his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, and still more his soul besides, he can not be My disciple."

Jesus, is using the term "hating" in such a way as to mean that they were to be giving more attention to Him and His ministry and God and less to their father and mother.

He was not telling his disciples to actually have a bitter hatred toward their parents and not love them at all nor care for them at all.

Likewise, IMO, God did not show a bitter hatred toward Esau and in fact God blessed Esau greatly later on! It was just that God was showing greater attention to Jacob in blessing him rather than Esau at the time of getting the blessing of the first-born and thereafter.
It was in that sense that "Jacob I love yet Esau I hate."

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

So this is the theology that helps you Calvinists sleep at night?

As a Calvinist you worship a god who limits himself by causing billions of humans to come into existence who, without any say in the matter, are destined to suffer forever, simply because they were born "totally depraved" and are unable to do anything about it because they are not one of the elect.

That was part of the theology that kept me awake at night during my horrific nervous breakdown (1966-78, I'm 72 now).

I was so thankful to learn about the UR point of view!!!

I can only cope with the existence of Calvinist theology by perceiving it as a foil of contrast, a part of the blackest of backgrounds upon which God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation, using the paint brush of His undefeatble grace.

So, now we know why you embrace UR heresy...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

IMO, the word "hate" concerning Esau should not take on the American idea that we have of bitter hatred. Here's why I think that.
Luk 14:26 "If anyone is coming to Me and is not hating his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, and still more his soul besides, he can not be My disciple."

Jesus, is using the term "hating" in such a way as to mean that they were to be giving more attention to Him and His ministry and God and less to their father and mother.

He was not telling his disciples to actually have a bitter hatred toward their parents and not love them at all nor care for them at all.

Likewise, IMO, God did not show a bitter hatred toward Esau and in fact God blessed Esau greatly later on! It was just that God was showing greater attention to Jacob in blessing him rather than Esau at the time of getting the blessing of the first-born and thereafter.
It was in that sense that "Jacob I love yet Esau I hate."

What did you do in your Christian walk that caused you to have a breakdown?...

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

So, now we know why you embrace UR heresy...

Rather, now you know why I embraced the evidence in favor of UR as expounded here.
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
Universal Salvation University

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

What did you do in your Christian walk that caused you to have a breakdown?...

The reason for my horrific twelve year breakdown was my inability to love or trust a god who would let anyone suffer forever.

Here are the testimonies of many other people who had the same problem.
THE CONSEQUENSES OF ETERNAL TORMENT TEACHING
Fruit from the Teaching of Hell

IMO the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe like you do and not go stark raving mad thinking about the idea that almost everyone you meet on a day to day basis is going to suffer forever.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

God's Laws are not unjust...

God laws are not,(love IS the fulfillment of the law of God). Eternal torment is a decree of man that is oppressive, purely thought up to put men in fear and to control them by that fear.The scripture says woe to them that such decree's comes by.