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Because it's yoke is bondage and it's burden is heavy.
That's kind of a general statement. Could you be more specific? I mean I don't feel like I'm in bondage and I don't feel like I am carrying any heavier burden that the next person. I'd say that's probably the opposite of how I feel. And I don't think I'm unique among religious people.
It's interesting to me that you use the term "closed-minded" about people who don't like religion. I don't think I'm one who "detests" or "abhors" religion, but having been someone who was completely involved in a religion for the majority of my life, I do detest and abhor some of the things that religion nurtured in me, specifically close-mindedness. When I think of the friendships that were strained, the people that I hurt, because of my dogmatism and my absolutely sincere belief that I was somehow trying to save those people from going to hell, it makes me very ashamed.
Often, if one is involved in one of the more conservative religions, one isn't allowed to question the doctrines of that religion without some pretty severe (relatively speaking) repercussions. If anyone had known, for instance, that I even believed in UR my husband would likely have been ousted from doing the things he loves to do in our church. With my beliefs as they are now? They'd probably tar & feather him. Which is partly why I don't even tell him, so that he doesn't have to carry that burden (the other burden I don't want to put on him is one of thinking I'm headed for hell in a hand-basket).
So, for me, my distaste for more fundamentalist religion is partly personal. I can't even share where I'm at with my hubby, who is my best friend, because of the division it would cause between us, and the trouble it would cause for him.
And, what's sad, is I can hear some Christians now, happily quoting that passage: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division". To some religionists, the division that "correct beliefs" brings between people, even between a husband and wife, is a GOOD thing. It separates the sheep from the goats, after all.
To me, spirituality should bring freedom and unity, not bondage to doctrines or legalistic rules, and division.
Thanks for sharing that Pleroo, I understand exactly what you're having to deal with because I can't share what I believe (or don't believe) with anyone close to me either. Religion is a divider, at least that's been my experience. It was horrible in the past and that's why I think I shy away from any organized religion. Just knowing God and that He is Love is enough for me.
It's interesting to me that you use the term "closed-minded" about people who don't like religion.
The reason I use the term is that is that when people say, "I don't like religion," it sounds like generalizing, based on their own experiences. While some people have had an experience with several different religions, most people who "don't like religion," have had experience with just one religion, or maybe with two rather closely related religions.
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I don't think I'm one who "detests" or "abhors" religion, but having been someone who was completely involved in a religion for the majority of my life, I do detest and abhor some of the things that religion nurtured in me, specifically close-mindedness. When I think of the friendships that were strained, the people that I hurt, because of my dogmatism and my absolutely sincere belief that I was somehow trying to save those people from going to hell, it makes me very ashamed.
Okay, it sounds to me like you're equating religion with dogmatism. I personally detest dogmatism, too. I just don't see the two as related.
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Often, if one is involved in one of the more conservative religions, one isn't allowed to question the doctrines of that religion without some pretty severe (relatively speaking) repercussions. If anyone had known, for instance, that I even believed in UR my husband would likely have been ousted from doing the things he loves to do in our church. With my beliefs as they are now? They'd probably tar & feather him. Which is partly why I don't even tell him, so that he doesn't have to carry that burden (the other burden I don't want to put on him is one of thinking I'm headed for hell in a hand-basket).
I guess I don't know how fundamentalist religions operate. I just know that there is a pretty wide range of opinions on a lot of things within my religion. I'm a lot more liberal than a lot of LDS people, and so far, I've never been tarred and feathered. (This is the first time I've realized you're female, Pleroo. )
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To me, spirituality should bring freedom and unity, not bondage to doctrines or legalistic rules, and division.
Just one question... How do you decide what's a "legalistic rule" and what's a "commandment"? (I'm assuming you do believe that God expects us to keep His commandments?)
Spiritual people (Christians, in particular) who detest religion.
What was Jesus' attitude towards religion? His interactions with the religious authorities of His day said it all. Those interactions were His comment on organized religion as a human endeavour and indeed the human condition as a whole. The fact that we have Christian Pharisees today is a continuation of that comment.
What was Jesus' attitude towards religion? His interactions with the religious authorities of His day said it all. Those interactions were His comment on organized religion as a human endeavour and indeed the human condition as a whole. The fact that we have Christian Pharisees today is a continuation of that comment.
But He established a Church. What does that say? Suppose you had lived in Jesus' day? Would you have affiliated with His Church?
Thanks for sharing that Pleroo, I understand exactly what you're having to deal with because I can't share what I believe (or don't believe) with anyone close to me either. Religion is a divider, at least that's been my experience. It was horrible in the past and that's why I think I shy away from any organized religion. Just knowing God and that He is Love is enough for me.
Thank you for your witness. I sympathize with your plight . . . though I cannot truly empathize because I never had those problems. The good news in your otherwise untenable position, Pleroo . . . is that it is all just human ignorance and hubris and God loves us all in spite of it. Religion has been a stumbling block to true spiritual development and maturity for far too long. It is a testament to the power of ignorance and superstition.
Agreed. And that Love from God that hubby & I share for/with each other unifies us in a way that religion never could, so I've learned, for the most part, not to sweat the small stuff.
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Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
Thanks for sharing that Pleroo, I understand exactly what you're having to deal with because I can't share what I believe (or don't believe) with anyone close to me either. Religion is a divider, at least that's been my experience. It was horrible in the past and that's why I think I shy away from any organized religion. Just knowing God and that He is Love is enough for me.
I am sorry, Ilene, that this has been your experience too ... I know it can feel pretty lonely at times. But I agree ... just knowing Love really is enough. And it's nice to be able to come here and talk with people like you, as well.
It's interesting to me that you use the term "closed-minded" about people who don't like religion. I don't think I'm one who "detests" or "abhors" religion, but having been someone who was completely involved in a religion for the majority of my life, I do detest and abhor some of the things that religion nurtured in me, specifically close-mindedness. When I think of the friendships that were strained, the people that I hurt, because of my dogmatism and my absolutely sincere belief that I was somehow trying to save those people from going to hell, it makes me very ashamed.
Often, if one is involved in one of the more conservative religions, one isn't allowed to question the doctrines of that religion without some pretty severe (relatively speaking) repercussions. If anyone had known, for instance, that I even believed in UR my husband would likely have been ousted from doing the things he loves to do in our church. With my beliefs as they are now? They'd probably tar & feather him. Which is partly why I don't even tell him, so that he doesn't have to carry that burden (the other burden I don't want to put on him is one of thinking I'm headed for hell in a hand-basket).
So, for me, my distaste for more fundamentalist religion is partly personal. I can't even share where I'm at with my hubby, who is my best friend, because of the division it would cause between us, and the trouble it would cause for him.
And, what's sad, is I can hear some Christians now, happily quoting that passage: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division". To some religionists, the division that "correct beliefs" brings between people, even between a husband and wife, is a GOOD thing. It separates the sheep from the goats, after all.
To me, spirituality should bring freedom and unity, not bondage to doctrines or legalistic rules, and division.
I'm in the same boat Pleroo...but I've actually "come out" to my husband and I no longer attend church...I don't think he minded all that much giving it up for he no longer attends either.
I've shared alot of the things I've learned with him...and while he doesn't always get it...he can clearly see where I'm coming from when I show him the false teaching of todays Christianity.
I've shared alot of the things I've learned with him...and while he doesn't always get it...he can clearly see where I'm coming from when I show him the false teaching of todays Christianity.
What is "the false teaching of today's Christianity," ChristyGrl?
The reason I use the term is that is that when people say, "I don't like religion," it sounds like generalizing, based on their own experiences. While some people have had an experience with several different religions, most people who "don't like religion," have had experience with just one religion, or maybe with two rather closely related religions.
I understand, and I don't disagree that to generalize about people based on their religion (or non-religion) isn't helpful to anyone. I try not to do that.
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Okay, it sounds to me like you're equating religion with dogmatism. I personally detest dogmatism, too. I just don't see the two as related.
No, I'm not equating the two, but I definitely do believe they are related. Religion often is based on dogmatism, and not everyone transcends the dogmatism of their religion. I don't think all people fall into that trap, but I think many do. As Mystic said, religion can have the tendency to stunt people's spiritual growth. They trust the "letter of the law" of their religion more than trusting God.
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I guess I don't know how fundamentalist religions operate. I just know that there is a pretty wide range of opinions on a lot of things within my religion. I'm a lot more liberal than a lot of LDS people, and so far, I've never been tarred and feathered.
See, this is what I meant by what I said above. Religion can impact different people in different ways. I've only known one other person who was Mormon well enough to discuss their beliefs with them. It was 20 years ago, so my memory is sketchy (and she was often sketchy with the details), but she had a much different view of her religion than you do. She talked about "secret rites" and such that seemed to sort of freak her out (as well as some rather restrictive rules), and though she wasn't happy within her religion, she was afraid to express that to her fellow church members for fear being disciplined by the elders, or being shunned. She also was terrified of leaving her religion ... had something to do with those secret rites she'd taken part in and damnation to hell, as I recall.
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(This is the first time I've realized you're female, Pleroo. )
No problem ... Pleroo is hardly a gender specific handle, lol.
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Just one question... How do you decide what's a "legalistic rule" and what's a "commandment"? (I'm assuming you do believe that God expects us to keep His commandments?)
No, I don't think God "expects" anything of us in order to incur favor or keep him from being angry. In my experience, the standards that were set by my religion served really one good purpose ... they showed me that the more I tried to live up to those standards out of fear of God's displeasure with me, the less able I was to do so. It left me feeling that something just wasn't right ... and that was a good thing, because it made me begin to question my beliefs. When I came to accept that God simply LOVES, period, that begin to change me.
There's a passage in the bible that says that basically, there is nothing that is wrong to do, only those things which are not beneficial. Love, I think, fulfills that ... it allows one to stop worrying about whether or not they are sinning ... it allows one to instead focus on whether or not beliefs, thoughts, and actions are beneficial ... are they LOVE.
Sorry if that's disjointed. A bit distracted at the moment.
Last edited by Pleroo; 08-02-2011 at 10:53 AM..
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Which is partly why I don't even tell him, so that he doesn't have to carry that burden (the other burden I don't want to put on him is one of thinking I'm headed for hell in a hand-basket).
)
The good news in your otherwise untenable position, Pleroo . . . is that it is all just human ignorance and hubris and God loves us all in spite of it. Religion has been a stumbling block to true spiritual development and maturity for far too long. It is a testament to the power of ignorance and superstition.
