Where does Bible say Jesus is God (Zen, Yahweh, saved)

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Tarheelhombre

Speak the truth brother.

You have no idea whatsoever what the truth is. Jesus Christ is the Truth and His Gospel of God's Love is the Truth . . . not your Jealous, vengeful, wrathful, angry God of the OT born in ancient ignorance.

Originally Posted by Tarheelhombre

John 3:20: "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."

You fundies always bring up this unrelated "evil this and evil that lovers of sin" crap when talking to UR's . . . who do NONE of those things, "LOVE God and each other" . . . NOT sin, and bask in the LIGHT of God's love . . . not hide in the darkness in fear of His wrath. Who are you arguing against that you think do these things? It certainly isn't us.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by hose111

I have been having discussion with user 'Woodrow Li', a muslim. He insists it is not found in the Bible (at least not in anything He said). What passages would show that Jesus Himself, believed He was God? Thank you

Well, in Hebrews 1:7-8, we read the following: "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." If God the Father addressed Jesus Christ as "God," I'd say it's pretty clear He (the Father) considered Him (the Son) to be "God." (Of course, I need to add here that I believe that "God" is a title the Father and the Son share. I don't believe that they are simply different manifestations of the same individual.)

[DraggingCanoe]

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” John Jay...co-author of the Federalist Papers and the first Supreme Court Chief Justice.

Providence...Christian nation...Christian rulers

[pneuma]

He did not say that no one is good exept the Father. He said that no one is good but God - Theos. He was not saying that He wasn't God. That would contradict the fact that the Scriptures say that He is God. And Jesus in referring to Himself with the Jehovistic 'I am' in passages such as John 8:24 and 8:58 identifed Himself AS God. The best understanding of what Jesus said to the ruler in Luke 18:19 is that He was bringing to his attention that if he understood that Jesus Christ was God, then he was correct in calling Him good. In other words, far from saying that He wasn't God, this statement of Jesus is actually another of statement of His deity.

You mean it contradicts YOUR belief in the trinity. The I am is NOT in reference to God the Father, read those scriptures again. Jesus makes it plain that the I am statement is NOT the Father as He makes it plain that He does nothing but what He saw the Father who sent him did.

Jesus Christ is God whether you have a problem with it or not!!!!!!!

Did I not say I believed Jesus Christ is God, I believe I did, so why so hostile?

I already told you that Jesus Christ is not God the Father. Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Godhead.

If Jesus Christ is a part of the Godhead, how is it that the Godhead dwelt within Him?

God is One in essence, and three in Person. There are three Persons in the Godhead who all have the same essence.

Trinitarian nonsense

The scripture says there is only ONE true God, not three. A mediator is not of ONE, but God is ONE, therefore Jesus who is our mediator is NOT the ONE true God. He is the mediator between the ONE true God and man.

The passage says that Jesus Christ being God, IS equal with God (the Father and the Holy Spirit.) But Jesus did not regard His equality with God a thing to be retained. In other words, Jesus was willing to temporarily give up the outward manifestatioin of His deity so that He could carry out the Plan of the Father in providing salvation for man.

Well if He is equal with God then He is NOT God is he.

In ancient Semitic thought,'son of' means in the likeness of. Jesus Christ is not a son of God as believers are through adoption. He is uniquely 'The Son of God' meaning that He IS God. Just as Phil 2:5-8 says He is.

If someone is the likeness of another then they are just that a LIKENESS. Adam was a son of God, Israel is Gods FIRSTBORN son, does that make them God also. We are sons of God does that make us God also?

One of the things that many fail to realise is that Christ is NOT just Jesus, Jesus is only the HEAD of the BODY of Christ.

As I said, John 1:1 states that the Word (Jesus Christ) was with God, and the Word was God. Jesus Christ is being distinguished from the other two Persons of the Godhead.

I agree that Jesus Christ (the word) is distinguished from God, therefore it was not GOD that came in the flesh was it? You cannot have it both ways Mike, you yourself make the distinction then turn around and say the ONE true God came in the flesh. That's double speak and every Trinitarian out there uses this double speak and that should be enough to show you that the trinity concept is in error.

The Israelites offered incense to the bronze serpent to aid in the worship of Baal and Asherah (2 Kings 18:4). They were not worshiping God. God is not to be worshiped through the use of graven images. They had turned the bronze serpent into an idol.

Nonsense, you add to the scriptures, nothing in 2 Kings 18 states that they offered worship to Baal and Asherah by way of the brazen serpent. They worshipped the brazen serpent itself that why they called it Nehushtan.

That has no bearing on the fact that Jesus referred to Moses' lifting up of the brass serpent (Numbers 21:8-9) to illustrate the reason He came into the world. John 3:14

Yes it does but as I said you would disregard the further typology in favour of your trinity error.

Oh! And by the way, YES!!! I WORSHIP JESUS CHRIST!!!!!

I worship (honour) Jesus Christ also, but I do NOT worship Him as the ONE true God as you do, thus making Jesus Christ an idol. Ye now not what ye worship, by your own mouth Jesus is NOT the Father and it is the TRUE worshippers who worship the Father in spirit and in truth. Jn.4:23

According to scripture you are NOT a TRUE worshipper.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

Another anti-christ instead message.....

God said:

“I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber."

All other religions that do not confess Jesus is God and subsitute for their sin is a thief and and a robber.

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

"Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire....Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!

He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

I love the way you change the scripture, not even the christian is to confess that Jesus is God.

[kids in america_]

Originally Posted by Mike555

I am well aware there there are different interpretations, of those passages. Probably just about every passage in the Bible had different interpretations. But there is only one correct interpretation of any passsage. It is those with a theological bias against the deity of Christ who try to explain away what John 1:1 and Phil 2:6-8 say so plainly.

As for doing my own research, you know full well that I went over Phil 2:5-8 with you on another thread, and you could not even begin to comprehend what the hypostatic union of Christ is about.

And your last sentence in your statement above demonstrates that.

Jesus didn't 'Act' anything. As God, He could not go to the cross, and He could not die. Therefore, He had to become a man so that He could be crucified and so that He could die. His deity did not die. His humanity died. Even while the humanity of Christ was being judged for the sins of the world, His deity was holding the universe together.

Now, here is another study on the hypostatic union of Jesus Christ. I suggest that you study it. --> Divine Knowledge

But if you intend on being stubborn and insist on sticking with your bias against the deity of Christ, then believe what you want.

Mike what is your take on Luke 2:52?

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. (KJV)

If Jesus is 100% ‘god’ then how could he keep "increasing in wisdom", since god’s "understanding is infinite"(see Psalm 147:5 KJV) and wisdom comes from 'him' (Proverbs 2:1-11)?

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

"we are all children of God"..? that is not the truth.

Jesus' language is clear to me when Jesus said otherwise:

"Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire....
Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!

He who belongs to God hears what God says.
The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

and to John:

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are

who did Jesus say that to TS? Those of Israel, God's firstborn. They were still Gods children but were doing the works of the devil the same as Peter when Jesus called him satan.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Well, in Hebrews 1:7-8, we read the following: "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." If God the Father addressed Jesus Christ as "God," I'd say it's pretty clear He (the Father) considered Him (the Son) to be "God." (Of course, I need to add here that I believe that "God" is a title the Father and the Son share. I don't believe that they are simply different manifestations of the same individual.)

Yes Jesus is God katz, He is just not the one true God who is the Father. And this can be seen in that Jesus give up his throne to the Father.

[BWW1962]

Originally Posted by Mike555

No, you have not. You have only learned enough to get yourself into trouble trying to understand the Scriptures.

You again make it very clear that you are just a follower and are incapable of independent critical thinking. You suggest that I am in trouble understanding the scriptures because I have exposed the fallacy of a belief you cling to. However, you are incapable of demonstrating one thing I have said is inaccurate. You only repeat your man made belief as if that somehow will invalidate the facts that contradict it.

As regards to what John wrote in John 1:1 "...the Word was a god" you say:

Originally Posted by Mike555

No he did not. To my knowledge, the only Bible translation which says that 'the Word was a god' is the Jehovah's witness's 'New World Translation.' And they are wrong, as are you. Their/your translation is based on a theological bias.

You again demonstrate your lack of knowledge of the Bible, translation and reasoning ability. There are many Bible versions that accurately translate John 1:1 to the consternation of trinitarians. As I pointed out earlier, the bias is in the trinitarian "translation". Examine any academic explanation and it is obvious they have to create false Greek grammar "rules" to insert the definite article "ho" in order justify their translation. The accurate translation of "the word was a god" requires no such inventions or explanations; it was what John actually wrote.

The odd part is that after touting you lack of knowledge of different Bible translations, you later cite the debate about the trinity that has been ongoing since it initial proposal. It is only JWs who know what John wrote, but the debate is dated back to Arianism? It appears you do not really process all of the information you parrot into one contiguous message.

Originally Posted by Mike555

There is but one true God and no other.

We are in complete agreement on this point

Originally Posted by Mike555

Jesus says of Himself.... Rev 22:13

That was not Jesus speaking.

Originally Posted by Mike555

There is but one God who exists in Three Persons. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Spurious trinity twaddle you add to the discussion but have provided no evidence to support it. The only thing you have really demonstrated is a binity.

Originally Posted by Mike555

And knowing this, John never said that Jesus was 'a god'. He said that Jesus IS God.

Again, you, and as many others foolishly present, insist that John 1:1 must be inaccurately translated to support the trinity version, because if not, John would be promoting polytheism ( a prime example of interpretive bias, not translation). This is an absurd argument. Just because you have no understanding of what John actually wrote, it does not warrant changing it to fit your belief. John's message was not about the identity of The Word, it was about the QUALITIES of the Word.

Actually, academically this point is a slam dunk. Of course there are die hard trinitarians that will not accept it, but the translation evidence is clear to the unbiased. The fake rules trinitarians use to justify changing John's original writing have been disproven time and time again, i.e. Colwell's Rule

Originally Posted by Mike555

Yes. I study Theology. You would do well to do so.

......

I will instead direct you to 'the works of men' because you are not going to listen to anything that I say anyway. That was immediately apparent from the tone of your first post. This is really for the benefit of readers who will listen..

You are certainly right that i will not be swayed by your "works of men". I study the Bible and follow the Bible. It is clear you need someone you can follow and that you are their diligent apostle (repeating their message and advocating it to others). I have already seen the fallacies of what you regurgitate here. I studied those teachings for years and have seen their deception and false teachings. You will not convince me to join you because I follow the Bible and have the ability to study it without being told what to think.

Originally Posted by Mike555

About the word morphē in verse 6. Here is the definition as given in HELPS Word-studies: 3444 morphḗ –..... that embodies essential (inner) substance so that the form is in complete harmony with the inner essence.
Strong's Greek: 3444. ????? (morphé) -- form, shape


Now, if you disregard and reject what experts in the Greek say about the word morphe, in favor of what you think it means, then you are in fact implying that you are an expert in the Greek.

I do disregard it as would anyone who has even done a little independent study. This one paragraph shows how false their presentation is.


"form, shape" - This is true

Then they go into pure fabrication

"that embodies essential (inner) substance so that the form is in complete harmony with the inner essence."

This is absolutely false and theological rhetoric. It is no wonder though, because you are citing theological references who are trying to justify their twisting of their Greek translation.

Then you demonstrate how you use BIAS to translate by using this false definition of morphe to justify a questionable interpretation of harpagmos "grasp" that is also not accurate.

Try referencing some REAL Koine Greek lexicons (Liddell & Scott's Greek Lexicon) instead of biased theological references. You will see how they are trying to deceive you by providing theological definitions that are completely inconsistent with Koine Greek language. There is no such thing as "Biblical Koine Greek" seperete from the rest of Koine Greek.

Follow the theologians if you will, but I recommend you study the Bible for yourself and use reference materials that are not tainted by the theologian's bias.

You have failed to demonstrate you assertion that the trinity is taught in the Bible. It appears that all you can do it point to the works of those you blindly follow.

I have already examined those works and found them false. The Bible is the only source for me.

[kids in america_]

Originally Posted by BWW1962

That was not Jesus speaking.

BWW1962, I am curious, whom do you think was speaking in Rev 22.13? Do you think the God was the speaker? Some say the entire discourse of Rev. 22 is being given by an ‘angel'. Some say the ‘angel’ was speaking about God in verse 13.