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Old 09-03-2011, 01:02 PM
 
9,080 posts, read 4,453,092 times
Reputation: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAA2310 View Post


Now you know this is not true. Already in Genesis 3:15 God is effectively proclaiming the Gospel, declaring Christ's vicory over Satan.

There is such a considerable number of references in the New Testament to Scripture being fulfilled with regard to Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:3,4 tells us the following:

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

We read in Romans 1:1,2:

1 "Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures,"


Another interesting and important reference is in Gal 3:8

"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed" (quoting from Genesis).

You remember when Jesus spoke to the two who were on the road to Emmaus (in Luke 24). At one point in their conversation He declared to them v.26 "Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (See also verses 45-47).

There is entirely too much to reference for a posting within a thread. Throughout the gospels Jesus would proclaim, "It is written...". I think we should stop here for now, as these postings can become long.

I also wish to thank you for your clarification of the use of the term, "Biblean". I wasn't sure if it was meant to be derogatory. But we really do not have to separate the two. A Christian is one who has come under the hearing of the Gospel as contained in the Bible. I see the Bible as completely identified with Christ, as Christ and the Gospel are its central message.
Quite frankly Mystic, Katjonjj, Phazelwood and others that amen to them aren't here for the truth. Their replies are to propagate themself superior (which a form of idolatry) of their wisdom over God's justice.

They know it's not the truth to the statement that there is no Gospel in the OT...it's wanton blindness.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,352 posts, read 10,848,853 times
Reputation: 4172
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
My question is and has been... Do you trust your own knowledge of the god you have a personal relationship with?
I trust my knowledge and everything the Holy Spirit tells me is is perfect harmony with what the Bible says.

Quote:
You didn't and haven't proven that the bible is MORE TRUSTWORTHY than a personal relationship with god and their knowledge of him through that relationship
I think it has been answered in more ways than one. You have chosen to trust your emotions instead, and I think that is dangerous, when you have shown your emotions are out of sync with the word of God is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

Quote:
The fact is: the bible has been found in error. Just as a math book with an error, you don't need to stop using it for instruction.
It has been found in error? No it has not.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:29 PM
 
9,080 posts, read 4,453,092 times
Reputation: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I just like the exercise once in a while.

The answer is simple, imo: Trust God. I know I can trust God because of who God is: LOVE ... and love never fails. Everything else follows and flows from that. That's the Christ spirit/witness, I believe. Anything which doesn't fit with that message is anti-Christ.

Trust God. God is Love.
Simple.
When IMO's offer an instead opinion vs. Jesus' then what ..... ignore what Jesus said?

Tell us how Jesus is being his own anti-Christ.
John 5:28-29
"for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come outó
those who have done good will rise to live,
and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned"
...... Jesus
Luke 9:26
"If anyone is ashamed of me and my words,
the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory
and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels
." ..... Jesus

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,
but whoever rejects the Son will not see life,
for Godís wrath remains on him.Ē
..
... Jesus

Revelation 14:10
"he, too, will drink of the wine of Godís fury,
which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.
He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb"
..... Jesus
And what about Paul .... an anti-Christ too?

Ephesians 5:6

Let no one deceive you with empty words,
for because of such things Godís wrath comes on those who are disobedient.


Romans 12:19

Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for Godís wrath,
for it is written: ďIt is mine to avenge; I will repay,Ē says the Lord.


Romans 2:5
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,
you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of Godís wrath,
when his righteous judgment will be revealed.





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Old 09-03-2011, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,352 posts, read 10,848,853 times
Reputation: 4172
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Quite frankly Mystic, Katjonjj, Phazelwood and others that amen to them aren't here for the truth. Their replies are to propagate themself superior (which a form of idolatry) of their wisdom over God's justice.

They know it's not the truth to the statement that there is no Gospel in the OT...it's wanton blindness.
http://******************/sad-smiley-8226.gif (broken link)
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:47 PM
 
Location: USA
5,051 posts, read 1,732,518 times
Reputation: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
When IMO's offer an instead opinion vs. Jesus' then what ..... ignore what Jesus said?

Tell us how Jesus is being his own anti-Christ.
John 5:28-29
"for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come outó
those who have done good will rise to live,
and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned"...... Jesus
Luke 9:26
"If anyone is ashamed of me and my words,
the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory
and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels." ..... Jesus

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,
but whoever rejects the Son will not see life,
for Godís wrath remains on him.Ē..... Jesus

Revelation 14:10
"he, too, will drink of the wine of Godís fury,
which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.
He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb"..... Jesus
And what about Paul .... an anti-Christ too?
Ephesians 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words,
for because of such things Godís wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for Godís wrath,
for it is written: ďIt is mine to avenge; I will repay,Ē says the Lord.

Romans 2:5
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,
you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of Godís wrath,
when his righteous judgment will be revealed.





I don't have to ignore any of this, Twin. As I said to Finn, none of this is the end of the story. It all proceeds from who God is (LOVE) and the end purpose that he has for ALL ... that all will be made alive in Christ, that all will worship, and that God (LOVE) will be all in ALL.

I trust God to accomplish these things.

God is love. Love never fails. Trust God. It's that simple.
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Old 09-03-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,352 posts, read 10,848,853 times
Reputation: 4172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I don't have to ignore any of this, Twin. As I said to Finn, none of this is the end of the story. It all proceeds from who God is (LOVE) and the end purpose that he has for ALL ... that all will be made alive in Christ, that all will worship, and that God (LOVE) will be all in ALL.

I trust God to accomplish these things.

God is love. Love never fails. Trust God. It's that simple.
You cannot trust God to lie. It's that simple. If he saves even one person who rejected His love, then it would make God a liar, and that is impossible.
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Old 09-03-2011, 02:17 PM
 
21,850 posts, read 9,713,172 times
Reputation: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It is too bad you see it as either, - or issue (either relationship or Bible). I am happy to say I have both. YOU ARE a believer of your own thoughts and emotions, and since your thoughts are not in sync with the Bible, you have no other choise but to denounce the Bible as being wrong. You are right and the Bible is wrong, and that is walking on thin ice.
More of the either/or thinking of fundamentalism, Finn . . . either it is what you believe the Bible tells us or it is wrong, period. Your inability to see, or unwillingness to see, or just plain obtuseness to the proper division of the scriptures places you in far more peril than any of us UR's, Finn. The anti-Christ message is the one of a jealous, vengeful and wrathful God who had to be appeased by sacrificial torture and death . . . and who inflicts such torture eternally on some of His creations who anger Him. The Christ message is love for us all and salvation BY Jesus Christ so we would have eternal life with God through "love of God and each other"

God has "written in our hearts" and Christ abides with us so His Holy Spirit can guide us to what God has written there. Our sufficiency is not of ourselves . . . it is of God.. . . such trust do we have through Christ to God-ward.

2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)

2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


Last edited by MysticPhD; 09-03-2011 at 03:00 PM..
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Old 09-03-2011, 02:53 PM
 
Location: USA
5,051 posts, read 1,732,518 times
Reputation: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You cannot trust God to lie. It's that simple. If he saves even one person who rejected His love, then it would make God a liar, and that is impossible.
I trust God. No one will reject God forever. Love never fails. It's that simple. I trust that God is not a liar when he says that ALL will be made alive in Christ, that ALL will worship, that God will be all in ALL.
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Old 09-03-2011, 03:03 PM
 
358 posts, read 150,109 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
My question is and has been... Do you trust your own knowledge of the god you have a personal relationship with?

You didn't and haven't proven that the bible is MORE TRUSTWORTHY than a personal relationship with god and their knowledge of him through that relationship.

The fact is: the bible has been found in error. Just as a math book with an error, you don't need to stop using it for instruction.

If you have a problem trusting your inner knowledge of god, don't project that on others.

Just answer the question...address the problem of why a 2000 year old book should be more trustworthy than a personal knowledge stemming from a personal relationship.

We've been hearing a lot about one's personal relationship with God, or our knowledge of Him through that personal relationship (and I think there may be a couple of other things).

To speak of a believer's knowledge of God or his relationship with God is completely valid. As believers we are children of God through adoption "by Jesus Christ". So, yes, we do have that relationship.

God also speaks of giving the one whom He saves a new heart and a new spirit. We have a nice description of this in Ezekiel 36:25-27:

25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them

God has put His Spirit within the one whom He saves. Now we have an inner witness, as it were, to discern spiritual matters; whether they be matters of doctrine or godly living.

Now, until Christ returns for us, the believer struggles with two natures...a sin nature (the flesh) and the regenerated (spirit) nature. The apostle Paul agonizes over this struggle in Romans 7 (from about verse 14 through the end of the chapter).

He delights in the law according to the "inward man" (v.22). But he says in verse 23, " But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Then the conclusion of the matter is found in the last two verses of the chapter:

24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

So you are correct, we do have a knowledge of God based on our relationship with Him. But we also have this dreadful struggle with sin because of our flesh.

The Bible tells me everything I need to know about this struggle, and how to fight against it. Anything I know about this from within myself is the result of what the Scriptures have instructed.

I honestly can't think of anything I could possibly know that does not first come from the Bible.
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Old 09-03-2011, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,391,355 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
I would rather trust the scriptures as Jesus did when he went about fulfilling and quoting the OT did than the alternative .... feelings and a lot of hot air ... which you have yet to prove either.
So first, let me confirm that you would rather trust the bible than what you know of God through your relationship with him.

IMO that is a shallow relationship and I pity you.

Second, I don't have to prove my knowledge of god from my personal relationship. It is only real to me. Just as you cannot force me to conform to your distrust of your own knowledge of god from your personal relationship with him.

I am confident in my assessment of what god would and wouldn't do. Seems you distrust yourself. So why would I want to trust what you say?

Last edited by katjonjj; 09-03-2011 at 03:09 PM.. Reason: Noticed it's post 1000 ... Cool!
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