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Old 08-12-2011, 09:22 AM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,426,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Rather focus on the truth ........ the "antichrist cult message" (acm) appears when it denies these passages:
God is a consuming fire, a jealous God" Deuteronomy 4:24
>> acm ... not so, instead God is only love <<


(the gift from )"God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23

>> acm .. not so. Any one... from athesist to Zeus will have eternal life (eventually). Jesus doesn't need to be "our" Lord....expecially while alive.
If God is eternal life through Jesus, why do people that say they are followers of Jesus, keep dying.

Life eternal, is a life without end. "Many are called. FEW, are chosen".
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:38 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,805 posts, read 9,579,797 times
Reputation: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
If God is eternal life through Jesus, why do people that say they are followers of Jesus, keep dying.

Life eternal, is a life without end. "Many are called. FEW, are chosen".
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

God revealed that when a believer died physically..it also was refered to as "sleeping" or "fallen asleep" but when the unbeliever dies it is "death"
That "death" is all together different from the common physical death experience
  • “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."
  • I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways !
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:14 AM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,426,383 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

God revealed that when a believer died physically..it also was refered to as "sleeping" or "fallen asleep" but when the unbeliever dies it is "death"
That "death" is all together different from the common physical death experience
  • “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."
  • I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways !
so you do or don't believe this?
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:28 PM
 
36,169 posts, read 24,310,883 times
Reputation: 5733
The true irony and tragedy of the religious retention of ancient ignorance is that the widespread apostasy and anti-Christ beliefs the mainstream churches are waiting for has already occurred. ET and AN are ANTI-Christ's Gospel. They are BAD NEWS . . . NOT the Gospel. The widespread worldwide acceptance of them in mainstream Christianity (Bibleanity) IS the Apostasy!!
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:04 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 15,032,332 times
Reputation: 6850
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post

Originally Posted by Mike555
God the Holy Spirit will NEVER reveal anything which is contrary to the teaching of the Scriptures which are God-breathed. Anyone can claim that the Holy Spirit revealed this or that to them. But if in making that claim they then proceed to speak of things which are contrary to the word of God, they are deceived and deceiving. To disregard the Bible is to disregard what God has communicated in His written word, and therefore to disregard God Himself. The Bible is the ABSOLUTE norm and standard for truth.



Quote:
It has been my experience and the experience of hundreds of thousands of others, that the spirit, does in fact, reveal things that aren't in the bible and also expounds and clarifies things that are vague or misleading in the bible.
No it hasn't. Experience and feelings can be deceptive. Neither you or anyone else in the post canon period of the church-age has been taught anything by the Holy Spirit which has not already been revealed BY the Holy Spirit to the writers of Scripture which they then set down in writing for the purpose of making this revelation available to every believer who will, under the filling ministry of the Holy Spirit study to show Himself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed. (from 2 Tim 2:15)

The Bible does not mislead. And of course the Holy Spirit makes clear the doctrines of the word of God. But only to the Spirit filled believer who studies and learns the word of God.


Your claims that the Holy Spirit has revealed anything to you of a spiritual nature that are not found in the Bible are false.



Quote:
It's apparent that you are equating "inspiration" with "dictation"....they are, in fact, two completely different things. Spiritual inspiration still requires that it be filtered through the human brain which can significantly affect what is written.
I'll let the late R. B. Thieme, JR. explain. Robert B. Thieme wrote...

The Principle of Inspiration

The Greek noun, θεόπνευστος (theopneustos), or "God breathed" (2 Tim. 3:16), entails the principle of inspiration and involves both inhale and exhale. In the inhale, the Holy Spirit communicated to human authors, like Paul, God's complete and coherent message (2 Sam. 23:2-3; Isa. 59:21; Jer. 1:9; Matt. 22:42-44; Mark 12:36; Acts 4:24-25; 28:25). In the exhale, the human writers of Scripture so wrote that without waiving their human intellegence, their vocabulary, their personal feelings, their literary style, their personality, or individuality, God's complete message to man was permanently recorded with perfect accuracy in the original languages of Scripture.

[Canonicity, R. B. Thieme, JR., p.5.]


Inspiration includes divine revelation of the unknown past as in Gen 1 and 2. It includes ancient history. The Bible is not a history textbook, but it does contain historical citations. The Bible contains objective type law.

And there is indeed dictation in the Bible. There are direct quotations from God such as Ezekiel 25:12-14. 'Thus says the Lord God, ''Because Edom has acted against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and has incurred grievous guilt, and avenged themselves upon them,'' 13] Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, ''I will also stretch out My hand against Edom and cut off man and beast from it. And I will lay it waste; from Teman even to Dedan they will fall by the sword. 14] ''And I will lay My vengeance on Edom by the hand of My people Israel. Therfore, they will act in Edom according to My anger and according to My wrath; Thus they will know My vengeance,'' declares the Lord GOD.

Another example of dictation is the prophecy of Tyre (Ezekiel 26).

There is devotional literature such as the Psalms, Song of Solomon, Eccelesiastes, and Job.

The Bible records falsehoods such as Satan's conversation with the woman in the garden (Gen 3:1-5). Divine inspiration doesn't mean that the falsehood is true, but inspiration guarantees the accuracy of the lie.

In all of this, the Bible is divinely inspired which quarantees that the Bible is accurate in all that it says. IN THE ORIGINAL AUTOGRAPHS IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES. Nevertheless, God has promised to preserve His word. For that reason, the errors and variations in the manuscript copies have not changed any point of doctrinal importance. God's message has not been lost. It has been preserved.


Quote:
Please provide a scriptural reference where this point is specifically made because I've never found ANYWHERE in the bible where it says the spirit will NOT reveal anything other than what is written in the bible. You keep saying it, but you've not provided ANYTHING that shows this to be TRUE. BTW...mans opinion about it doesn't count for squat...so try to prove me wrong.
Your attempt to make a case that the words 'the spirit will Not reveal anything other than what is written in the bible' have to be found in order for it to be true is faulty reasoning, as well as a weak attempt to back your false claim that the Holy Spirit reveals any new spiritual things which are not already available to all believers in the word of God.


God the Holy Spirit will never reveal anything contrary to what the Scriptures reveal. For example, the Bible says that Jesus Christ is God. Therefore, the Holy Spirit will never reveal anything to the contrary. The Bible states that salvation is through faith alone, in Christ alone. Therefore, the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone to believe that salvation can come through any means other than Christ. The Holy Spirit will never lead anyone to believe that the Bible is not to be trusted. Neither will Jesus Christ though channeling or automatic writing tell anyone to disregard what the Bible says, contrary to one poster's claim. God does not communicate through channeling or automatic writing. He communicates through His written word under the filling of the Holy Spirit.

God the Holy Spirit will never reveal anything of a spiritual nature that He has not already revealed in the Bible - the word of God, by way of the apostles. It pleased God to have permanantly recorded in writing for all generations, His message to man. With the completion of the canon of Scripture, there are no new spiritual truths being revealed to selected individuals. All spiritual truths which God deemed necessary for man to have have already been revealed in the Scriptures. God did not forget anything, or think of something new which would necessitate any new revelation.

The Holy Spirit does not work against the Scriptures, or without the Scriptures. He uses the written word of God to accomplish His work of revealing spiritual truths to the believer who seeks after the truth. The word of God - the Bible, and the Holy Spirit go together. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to illuminate the Scriptures which are the word of truth. It is only through the Holy Spirit that the Scripturs can be rightly divided. 2 Tim 2:15 'Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.



The danger of looking outside the Scriptures for spiritual truth.

Mark 7:7 'But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as Doctrines the precepts of men.' The Scriptures are not the precepts of men. The precepts of men are what exist outside of the word of God. But in a Satanic lie, there are those, including on this forum who regard the Bible as the precepts of men. These people reject the truth, and so are deceived and deceive.

Col 2:8 'See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. The only way to avoid deception is to be oriented to Biblical truth.

John 8:31 'Jesus, therefore was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, ''If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 31] and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.''

If you were ever in the truth, which based on your posts, is doubtful, you have turned away from the truth and into apostasy. Many, and perhaps most of your beliefs are contrary to what the Scriptures teach, and the Holy Spirit did Not lead you to those beliefs. An example of your false beliefs was just stated by you in post #100. You don't believe that Satan is a real being. You couldn't be more wrong.

It would be a waste of my time to spend any more time on you, as you have proven that you are antagonistic to Biblical truth.

Last edited by Mike555; 08-12-2011 at 02:15 PM..
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:31 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 23,745,270 times
Reputation: 8250
Do you all realize how humorous threads like this are to an atheist.

It's as silly as watching kids argue over a toy in the sandbox.

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Old 08-12-2011, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,205,728 times
Reputation: 1685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Do you all realize how humorous threads like this are to an atheist.

It's as silly as watching kids argue over a toy in the sandbox.
Especially when someone says even the lies in the bible are inspired by God!

Quote:
The Bible records falsehoods such as Satan's conversation with the woman in the garden (Gen 3:1-5). Divine inspiration doesn't mean that the falsehood is true, but inspiration guarantees the accuracy of the lie.
Really mike?
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 5,024,001 times
Reputation: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
It has been my experience and the experience of hundreds of thousands of others, that the spirit, does in fact, reveal things that aren't in the bible and also expounds and clarifies things that are vague or misleading in the bible.

It's apparent that you are equating "inspiration" with "dictation"....they are, in fact, two completely different things. Spiritual inspiration still requires that it be filtered through the human brain which can significantly affect what is written.

Please provide a scriptural reference where this point is specifically made because I've never found ANYWHERE in the bible where it says the spirit will NOT reveal anything other than what is written in the bible. You keep saying it, but you've not provided ANYTHING that shows this to be TRUE. BTW...mans opinion about it doesn't count for squat...so try to prove me wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No it hasn't. Experience and feelings can be deceptive. Neither you or anyone else in the post canon period of the church-age has been taught anything by the Holy Spirit which has not already been revealed BY the Holy Spirit to the writers of Scripture which they then set down in writing for the purpose of making this revelation available to every believer who will, under the filling ministry of the Holy Spirit study to show Himself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed. (from 2 Tim 2:15)

The Bible does not mislead. And of course the Holy Spirit makes clear the doctrines of the word of God. But only to the Spirit filled believer who studies and learns the word of God.


Your claims that the Holy Spirit has revealed anything to you of a spiritual nature that are not found in the Bible are false.





I'll let the late R. B. Thieme, JR. explain. Robert B. Thieme wrote...

The Principle of Inspiration

The Greek noun, θεόπνευστος (theopneustos), or "God breathed" (2 Tim. 3:16), entails the principle of inspiration and involves both inhale and exhale. In the inhale, the Holy Spirit communicated to human authors, like Paul, God's complete and coherent message (2 Sam. 23:2-3; Isa. 59:21; Jer. 1:9; Matt. 22:42-44; Mark 12:36; Acts 4:24-25; 28:25). In the exhale, the human writers of Scripture so wrote that without waiving their human intellegence, their vocabulary, their personal feelings, their literary style, their personality, or individuality, God's complete message to man was permanently recorded with perfect accuracy in the original languages of Scripture.

[Canonicity, R. B. Thieme, JR., p.5.]


Inspiration includes divine revelation of the unknown past as in Gen 1 and 2. It includes ancient history. The Bible is not a history textbook, but it does contain historical citations. The Bible contains objective type law.

And there is indeed dictation in the Bible. There are direct quotations from God such as Ezekiel 25:12-14. 'Thus says the Lord God, ''Because Edom has acted against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and has incurred grievous guilt, and avenged themselves upon them,'' 13] Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, ''I will also stretch out My hand against Edom and cut off man and beast from it. And I will lay it waste; from Teman even to Dedan they will fall by the sword. 14] ''And I will lay My vengeance on Edom by the hand of My people Israel. Therfore, they will act in Edom according to My anger and according to My wrath; Thus they will know My vengeance,'' declares the Lord GOD.

Another example of dictation is the prophecy of Tyre (Ezekiel 26).

There is devotional literature such as the Psalms, Song of Solomon, Eccelesiastes, and Job.

The Bible records falsehoods such as Satan's conversation with the woman in the garden (Gen 3:1-5). Divine inspiration doesn't mean that the falsehood is true, but inspiration guarantees the accuracy of the lie.

In all of this, the Bible is divinely inspired which quarantees that the Bible is accurate in all that it says. IN THE ORIGINAL AUTOGRAPHS IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES. Nevertheless, God has promised to preserve His word. For that reason, the errors and variations in the manuscript copies have not changed any point of doctrinal importance. God's message has not been lost. It has been preserved.




Your attempt to make a case that the words 'the spirit will Not reveal anything other than what is written in the bible' have to be found in order for it to be true is faulty reasoning, as well as a weak attempt to back your false claim that the Holy Spirit reveals any new spiritual things which are not already available to all believers in the word of God.


God the Holy Spirit will never reveal anything contrary to what the Scriptures reveal. For example, the Bible says that Jesus Christ is God. Therefore, the Holy Spirit will never reveal anything to the contrary. The Bible states that salvation is through faith alone, in Christ alone. Therefore, the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone to believe that salvation can come through any means other than Christ. The Holy Spirit will never lead anyone to believe that the Bible is not to be trusted. Neither will Jesus Christ though channeling or automatic writing tell anyone to disregard what the Bible says, contrary to one poster's claim. God does not communicate through channeling or automatic writing. He communicates through His written word under the filling of the Holy Spirit.

God the Holy Spirit will never reveal anything of a spiritual nature that He has not already revealed in the Bible - the word of God, by way of the apostles. It pleased God to have permanantly recorded in writing for all generations, His message to man. With the completion of the canon of Scripture, there are no new spiritual truths being revealed to selected individuals. All spiritual truths which God deemed necessary for man to have have already been revealed in the Scriptures. God did not forget anything, or think of something new which would necessitate any new revelation.

The Holy Spirit does not work against the Scriptures, or without the Scriptures. He uses the written word of God to accomplish His work of revealing spiritual truths to the believer who seeks after the truth. The word of God - the Bible, and the Holy Spirit go together. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to illuminate the Scriptures which are the word of truth. It is only through the Holy Spirit that the Scripturs can be rightly divided. 2 Tim 2:15 'Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.



The danger of looking outside the Scriptures for spiritual truth.

Mark 7:7 'But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as Doctrines the precepts of men.' The Scriptures are not the precepts of men. The precepts of men are what exist outside of the word of God. But in a Satanic lie, there are those, including on this forum who regard the Bible as the precepts of men. These people reject the truth, and so are deceived and deceive.

Col 2:8 'See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. The only way to avoid deception is to be oriented to Biblical truth.

John 8:31 'Jesus, therefore was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, ''If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 31] and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.''

If you were ever in the truth, which based on your posts, is doubtful, you have turned away from the truth and into apostasy. Many, and perhaps most of your beliefs are contrary to what the Scriptures teach, and the Holy Spirit did Not lead you to those beliefs. An example of your false beliefs was just stated by you in post #100. You don't believe that Satan is a real being. You couldn't be more wrong.

It would be a waste of my time to spend any more time on you, as you have proven that you are antagonistic to Biblical truth.
From Mike's response above...I think I've proven my point.
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:25 PM
 
3,574 posts, read 370,547 times
Reputation: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
First off..this is a summarization from the the book "Our Great Heritage, vol III"


the Bible speaks of two separate anti-christ's
  1. anti-christ (small "a") ... often associated in general terms connected with their message generally speaking
  2. Anti-christ (capital "A") ... specifically pointing to the person in singular terms
The word "anti" does not limit itself to the understanding of "against", but it also has the meaning of "instead". (this OP is about the small "a")


1 John 4:1-3
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God,
because many false prophets have gone out into the world....
This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

There was the Judaizing teachers within the church written about in Galatians
  • taught that salvation was by mixing faith and obedience to the law and mandatory circumcision
Shortly after them was the Gnostics
  • taught that salvation was achieved through a higher degree of knowledge (IMO...the father of what would be called New Age \ mysticism)
The heresies of Irenaeus (died about 200 AD)
  • [created more falsehoods] in his attempt to refute the Gnosticics
The Ariens
  • taught that Jesus was like God but not equal to God
The Nestorians
  • who denied any sharing of attributes between the two natures in the person of Christ
The Monophysites
  • taught that there was only one nature in Christ
The Monotheletes
  • denied Jesus' human nature had a will
The Bogomiles (peaked in the 12th century)
  • taught a mixture of Dualism and Gnosticism
The Cathari and Albigenses
  • deny the reality of Jesus' death
(and from the 14th century till current)
The great mass of anti-Trinitarians and antichristian sects
  • which has produced social gospels and Modernism
It seems to me if you look at the fruits of those that were controlling and were building a religion and had supremacy were mostly not producing good fruits or showing the fruit of the spirit ----
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 5,024,001 times
Reputation: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Especially when someone says even the lies in the bible are inspired by God!


The Bible records falsehoods such as Satan's conversation with the woman in the garden (Gen 3:1-5). Divine inspiration doesn't mean that the falsehood is true, but inspiration guarantees the accuracy of the lie.


Really mike?
Yeah...really Mike?????????? You must really think people are STUPID if you honestly think they will buy that...but, then again, you certainly did.

BTW...I am not antagonistic towards biblical truth...I am, however, antagonistic towards your version of biblical truth...HUGE DIFFERENCE.
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