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Old 09-05-2011, 12:09 PM
 
14,815 posts, read 7,426,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
This is how I understand it .....
think back to when you where a child (or if you have children) at one point in time one didn't question the parents. They were totally dependent of the wisdom\authority of the parents and were accepting of it.

So when the parent warned ... the child didn't questioned it.
So when the parent showed love ... the child didn't questioned it.
A child's survival is totally dependent on the parents and is content with that.
A child also has no cares\worries about the world or about wealth\possessions.

That is why Jesus says what he does:
An encouragement for faith like a child
Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear." ....


A warning of a unchild like faith:
"The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful."

The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away
You know that saying, "Do as I say, not as I do"? Kids don't do that. They mimic their parents' attitudes and behaviors regardless if what their parents say is contrary to those things.

Fortunately, we have a Father who is consistent and so, taking what you've said further, I think it is about us MIMICKING our Father, becoming like him.

I didn't mean to take this in an argumentative direction, but it does come to mind as I read your post, that what we believe about our Father's true nature is going to have an impact on what we become. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this ... If one believes any of their parent's actions flow from motives that are unloving in nature, then they run the risk of mimicking that. Of course, I don't think this must automatically be true of an ET believer ... after all, you have the Spirit of God within you, guiding you, bringing forth fruit consistent with God's nature (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, self-control). But, I still think a faulty understanding of God's nature as being punitive or vengeful can make it more difficult (and again, I speak from experience).
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
You know that saying, "Do as I say, not as I do"? Kids don't do that. They mimic their parents' attitudes and behaviors regardless if what their parents say is contrary to those things.

Fortunately, we have a Father who is consistent and so, taking what you've said further, I think it is about us MIMICKING our Father, becoming like him.

I didn't mean to take this in an argumentative direction, but it does come to mind as I read your post, that what we believe about our Father's true nature is going to have an impact on what we become. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this ... If one believes any of their parent's actions flow from motives that are unloving in nature, then they run the risk of mimicking that. Of course, I don't think this must automatically be true of an ET believer ... after all, you have the Spirit of God within you, guiding you, bringing forth fruit consistent with God's nature (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, self-control). But, I still think a faulty understanding of God's nature as being punitive or vengeful can make it more difficult (and again, I speak from experience).
Unfortunately, there are those who have a faulty or skewed perception of love.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
We can only benefit when it becomes subjective ... salvation and subsequently life with God in heaven (for what ever term one chooses to describe that existance) the blood of Christ (faith) must be a possession for one to be clothed with.

Nowhere will you read one can use anybody's alternative ...come to stand before God after death ... and being offered it anyway because of circumstances. Read Matthew 22:11-13

Jesus' spoke the truth in Matthew 22:11-13 the alternative is an instead.
What alternative? No one is saying that it isn't necessary for God to "clothe" a person with Himself in order for them to be in the kingdom, nor that it isn't necessary for a person to subjectively experience this. But you are ADDING to scripture when you say that it MUST happen before physical death, because you are reading scripture through an ET perspective rather than through the perspective of God's promises that ALL will be made alive, ALL will worship, ALL will be reconciled.



Quote:
The anti-christ message goes against the King who has the right not to show love.
We agreed that the Christ message is that GOD SAVES ... what part of GOD SAVES indicates that God who IS LOVE at any point would become antithetical to His VERY NATURE?
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Unfortunately, there are those who have a faulty or skewed perception of love.
I was absolutely one of those. And I've still got a long way to go.

Last edited by Pleroo; 09-05-2011 at 01:17 PM..
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:35 PM
 
14,815 posts, read 7,426,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Oh! I wasn't seeing that.

How about this;
So some don't believe in spirit death for those that Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?

THe unforgivable sin.
I think it might be Phazelwood who put that into it's proper perspective for me... God will not forgive one denying the Spirit's witness/work in one's life because one needs to remain under that unforgiveness until they recognize and subjectively ( loving that word, Twin) experience the Spirit and their salvation. That's God's righteous judgment in action, bringing about His desired purpose in each of our hearts, no matter how long it takes.
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Old 09-05-2011, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The anti-christ message goes against the King who has the right not to show love.
The king, in youR opinion, has the right to NOT show love but doesnt have the right to show love to ALL without them doing anything? Do you abhor generosity?
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Old 09-05-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,751,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
What alternative? No one is saying that it isn't necessary for God to "clothe" a person with Himself in order for them to be in the kingdom, nor that it isn't necessary for a person to subjectively experience this. But you are ADDING to scripture when you say that it MUST happen before physical death, because you are reading scripture through an ET perspective rather than through the perspective of God's promises that ALL will be made alive, ALL will worship, ALL will be reconciled.





We agreed that the Christ message is that GOD SAVES ... what part of GOD SAVES indicates that God who IS LOVE at any point would become antithetical to His VERY NATURE?
Who says this isn't also part of God's nature but the anti-christ instead message?

Proverbs 6:16
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:

Deuteronomy 12:31
You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates
Why do you think Jesus commanded the devil to worship him instead of Satan's demonic offer\temptation of Jesus to bow before Satan....because Jesus had love for Satan?

Probably because the LORD hates false worship and is a Jealous God.
Exodus 34:14
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

John 3:36 "but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”

Romans 12:19 "leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.

Revelation 14:10 "he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury"

Revelation 14:19
The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.

Revelation 16:1
Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”

Last edited by twin.spin; 09-05-2011 at 02:00 PM..
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:04 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,751,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
The king, in youR opinion, has the right to NOT show love but doesnt have the right to show love to ALL without them doing anything? Do you abhor generosity?
When the King doesn't show love and you insist otherwise that the King will...has nothing about me abhoring generosity.
It is your wanton refusal of the truth and because of such make yourself the arbitrator of what should be done with those who reject Jesus as the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of God.
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Old 09-05-2011, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,337,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
When the King doesn't show love and you insist otherwise that the King will...has nothing about me abhoring generosity.
It is your wanton refusal of the truth and because of such make yourself the arbitrator of what should be done with those who reject Jesus as the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of God.
Seems to me you believe god, the king, cannot possibly want to give the same amount of love to those who do nothing as those who do... What if god will give salvation to those who despise him... Are you disgusted with generosity like that?

Are you the arbitrator of how god deals woth those who reject him? If you reject him, you expect him to abandon you. I expect him to carry you.

The idea that you are right is keeping you from realizing that you could be wrong. If the king IS love how can he not give love?...

What if god gives the last (the rejector) the same as the first (the acceptor)? What then? Would you be jealous that god chooses to give to someone who hates him?
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Old 09-05-2011, 03:32 PM
 
14,815 posts, read 7,426,152 times
Reputation: 1936
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Who says this isn't also part of God's nature but the anti-christ instead message?
I don't understand why you keep talking about an "instead" message. What is the instead that you believe I've proclaimed? That God is LOVE instead of wrath? Nowhere does the bible proclaim that God IS wrath.



Quote:
Proverbs 6:16
Quote:
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:

Deuteronomy 12:31
You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates
Why do you think Jesus commanded the devil to worship him instead of Satan's demonic offer\temptation of Jesus to bow before Satan....because Jesus had love for Satan?

Probably because the LORD hates false worship and is a Jealous God.
Exodus 34:14
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

John 3:36 "but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”

Romans 12:19 "leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.

Revelation 14:10 "he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury"

Revelation 14:19
The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.

Revelation 16:1
Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”

You're very fixated on "wrath" passages, and I can't say I find it odd ... because I always was too when I saw everything through the lens/perspective of thinking ET was true.

But, I see it differently now Twin. It brings to mind where James warns us to be slow to wrath because he says that man's wrath doesn't work the righteousness of God. Man's wrath, as opposed to God's wrath, is always about punishment ... think of David, who when given the choice about whether to receive consequences for his actions from men or from God said with no hesitation that he wanted to be left to God's hands, because he understood that God is merciful where man often is not.

God's judgments/natural consequences (what we think of as wrath) have a purpose Twin ... a loving one, and one that SAVES. No discipline is pleasant at the time, of course, so it doesn't necessarily feel good ... but when one trusts themselves into the hands of a God who is love, then one need not fear.
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