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Old 07-18-2012, 01:32 AM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,734,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I have plainly told you that when the 70 weeks prophecy began has no relevence to the issue which is being discussed which is that the seventieth week is still future and that it is the Tribulation which is seven years in length. You have been unwilling and unable to address that fact and are attempting to deflect the subject to when the first period of sevens began which has absolutely no bearing on fact of the Tribulation being a future event and being seven years in duration.

And no, the forth decree would not place the the ending of the 69th week after the crucifixion of Christ.

The first decree was issued by Cyrus in 538 B.C. (2 Chron. 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-4; 5:13).

The second decree was issued by Darius in 520 B.C. (Ezra 6:1, 6:12).

The third decree was that of Artaxerxes in 458 B.C. (Ezra 7:11-26).

None of those first three decrees mention Jerusalem itself, but refer only to the temple.

It was the forth decree, also of Artaxerxes on March 5, 444 B.C which mentioned rebuilding both the temple and the city wall in keeping with Dan. 9:25 which refers to the building of Jerusalem itself. (Neh. 2:1-8).

In saying that the forth decree would have placed the end of the 69th week in 40 A.D., you are then saying that the end of the 69th week took place in 26 A.D. in accordance to the date of the third decree which was given in 458 B.C. Again, this is going by your claim that the forth decree would have placed the end of the 69th week in 40 A.D.

The Jewish Calendar used 360 day years as opposed to the Gregorian Calendar which uses 365 day years.

By the Jewish Calendar (360 day year).

(7 x 7) plus (62 x 7) years = 483 years

483 years x 360 days = 173,880 days.


By the Gregorian Calendar (365 day year)

444 B.C to A.D. 33 = 476 years

476 years x 365 days = 173,740 days plus 116 days in leap years plus 24 days (Mar 5 - March 30) = 173, 880 days.

The 24 days puts the date of the crucifixion on March 30, 33 A.D.

Since there is only one year between 1 B.C and 1 A.D., the time between 444 B.C and 33 A.D. IS 476 years rather then 477 years.

Information is from the Bible Knowledge Commentary, Old Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p. 1363.

I have now posted in posts # 1288, 1290, 1296, 1300, 1303, 1305, and 1308. I have shown that the Tribulation will be seven years in length and that it is the seventieth week of Daniel's prophecy and that it is still future. That has been the issue I have addressed and which you have denied. And having addressed it and shown it to be true, and since the only thing you have done is to attempt to deflect the subject, I am now done with this topic. I have no interest in ongoing debate.
One correction to what I said above. March 30th 33 A.D was the day that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey in what is called the Triumphal Entry (Luke 19:28-40). That was the completion of the 69th week. It was after that, after the completion of the 69th week that the Messiah was cut off as per Daniel 9:26. The seven sevens plus the sixty-two sevens equal the sixty-ninth seven.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
149 posts, read 104,412 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike555,

I have shown that the Tribulation will be seven years in length and that it is the seventieth week of Daniel's prophecy and that it is still future. That has been the issue I have addressed and which you have denied. And having addressed it and shown it to be true, and since the only thing you have done is to attempt to deflect the subject, I am now done with this topic. I have no interest in ongoing debate.
The only thing you have shown me is you are a very dishonest person who puts his own pride above God's Truth (and above telling the truth yourself). As far as the 70th Week, you have shown me nothing with regard to Daniel 9 stating the 70th week is separated from the previous 69 weeks and placed 20-21 centuries into the future. Since you refuse to be truthful, I have no further interest in this debate as well.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike555,

444 B.C to A.D. 33 = 476 years

476 years x 365 days = 173,740 days plus 116 days in leap years plus 24 days (Mar 5 - March 30) = 173, 880 days.

The 24 days puts the date of the crucifixion on March 30, 33 A.D.

Since there is only one year between 1 B.C and 1 A.D., the time between 444 B.C and 33 A.D. IS 476 years rather then 477 years.
What does this have to do with anything? ZERO. I can provide you with astronomical data that proves 30 A.D. is the year of the Crucifixion, but it wouldn't matter if the Crucifixion was 33 A.D. or 30 A.D. If the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was given in 444 B.C.(the fourth decree), 30 A.D. or 33 A.D. would make no difference. Seven "sevens" and sixty-two "sevens" (483 years total) is when the Annointed One would come:

"Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.'"(Daniel 9:25)

The fourth decree was given by Artaxerxes in 444 B.C. (Sabbath Year), and if you start counting from 444 B.C. and count 483 years, you arrive at the year A.D. 40 - which is neither A.D. 33 nor A.D. 30. It doesn't matter what happened 476 years later, because 476 years means absolutely NOTHING. Daniel 9 doesn't concern itself with 476 years (68 weeks), but only 483 years (69 weeks). If 476 years years (68 weeks) were the case, Scofield would have had to adjust his theory, and predict a 14 year tribulation, not a 7 year tribulation. Daniel 9:25 does not say "there will be seven 'sevens' and sixty-ONE 'sevens'" (68 weeks - 476 years); it says "there will be seven "sevens" and sixty-TWO "sevens" (69 weeks - 483 years). Since 69 weeks from 444 B.C. brings us to A.D. 40, the fourth decree cannot possibly be the correct decree. If you understood the operation of the Jubilee Calendar, to which the 70 weeks comes from in the first place, you would know that the fourth decree given by Artaxerxes in 444 B.C. cannot be the correct decree. Obviously, not knowing anything about the first 69 weeks (or ANY WEEKS in general), it is not surprising you know nothing about the 70th week - other than what exists in the screenplays for the Left Behind movies.

Last edited by Illuin; 07-18-2012 at 02:18 AM..
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:51 AM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,734,050 times
Reputation: 7497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuin View Post
The only thing you have shown me is you are a very dishonest person who puts his own pride above God's Truth (and above telling the truth yourself). As far as the 70th Week, you have shown me nothing with regard to Daniel 9 stating the 70th week is separated from the previous 69 weeks and placed 20-21 centuries into the future. Since you refuse to be truthful, I have no further interest in this debate as well.



What does this have to do with anything? ZERO. I can provide you with astronomical data that proves 30 A.D. is the year of the Crucifixion, but it wouldn't matter if the Crucifixion was 33 A.D. or 30 A.D. If the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was given in 444 B.C.(the fourth decree), 30 A.D. or 33 A.D. would make no difference. Seven "sevens" and sixty-two "sevens" (483 years total) is when the Annointed One would come:

"Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.'"(Daniel 9:25)

The fourth decree was given by Artaxerxes in 444 B.C. (Sabbath Year), and if you start counting from 444 B.C. and count 483 years, you arrive at the year A.D. 40 - which is neither A.D. 33 nor A.D. 30. It doesn't matter what happened 476 years later, because 476 years means absolutely NOTHING. Daniel 9 doesn't concern itself with 476 years (68 weeks), but only 483 years (69 weeks). If 476 years years (68 weeks) were the case, Scofield would have had to adjust his theory, and predict a 14 year tribulation, not a 7 year tribulation. Daniel 9:25 does not say "there will be seven 'sevens' and sixty-ONE 'sevens'" (68 weeks - 476 years); it says "there will be seven "sevens" and sixty-TWO "sevens" (69 weeks - 483 years). Since 69 weeks from 444 B.C. brings us to A.D. 40, the fourth decree cannot possibly be the correct decree. If you understood the operation of the Jubilee Calendar, to which the 70 weeks comes from in the first place, you would know that the fourth decree given by Artaxerxes in 444 B.C. cannot be the correct decree. Obviously, not knowing anything about the first 69 weeks (or ANY WEEKS in general), it is not surprising you know nothing about the 70th week - other than what exists in the screenplays for the Left Behind movies.
Your comprehensive skills are abysmally poor Illuin. And given your past radical comments on this forum, many of which have been removed, it is not surprising that you accuse me of being a dishonest person.

I refer readers back to post #1311 which also lists my prior posts on this thread. Most believers understand that the Tribulation is still a future event and that it will be seven years in length. Despite Illuim's claims, I have shown, and actually it is Daniel 9:26-27 which shows that there is a gap between the 69th week and the 70th week. The length of that gap depends on how long the present Church-age lasts. Refer to post #1296.



I have shown in post #1311 that Daniel's 70th week began with the 4th decree and that it could not have started with any of the other decrees. The 483 years (7 x 7) + (62 x 7) = 69th week of years is based on the Jewish Calendar which used a 360 day year. By the Gregorian Calendar, using a 365 day year, it is 476 years which ended in 33 A.D.

Now, again, I am done here.
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