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Old 08-15-2011, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,122,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Mike, here's the question ... Do you understand that when one believes that Christ has revealed that God IS love and is not holding sins against people, then one does not believe there is a need to "earn salvation" (as it is defined by ETers)?

One recognizes the Spirit of God/Love within and desires to walk in that Spirit, not out of fear of God's wrath, but simply out of the desire to love.

I know that you don't agree, but can you at least understand what's being said?
No...I don't think he can. It's been brought to his attention a number of times and still seems to fly right over his head no matter how you attempt to explain it to him.
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:37 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,688,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You people don't believe in hell? To bad. It's still there, and many of you are still going.
So are you then.
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:38 PM
 
15,057 posts, read 7,560,189 times
Reputation: 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
No...I don't think he can. It's been brought to his attention a number of times and still seems to fly right over his head no matter how you attempt to explain it to him.
Well, I know it often takes me many times of hearing a new concept from different people and in different ways before I fully comprehend where they are really coming from... Of course, it's also dependent upon me actually wanting to understand the other person's point of view.
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:45 PM
 
3,581 posts, read 457,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Well, I know it often takes me many times of hearing a new concept from different people and in different ways before I fully comprehend where they are really coming from... Of course, it's also dependent upon me actually wanting to understand the other person's point of view.
bingo!!!
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:55 PM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,674,976 times
Reputation: 7436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Mike, here's the question ... Do you understand that when one believes that Christ has revealed that God IS love and is not holding sins against people, then one does not believe there is a need to "earn salvation" (as it is defined by ETers)?

One recognizes the Spirit of God/Love within and desires to walk in that Spirit, not out of fear of God's wrath, but simply out of the desire to love.

I know that you don't agree, but can you at least understand what's being said?
Listen now. The believer has eternal security. He cannot lose his salvation. Therefore, he cannot maintain his salvation by anything that he can do (God maintains his salvation), just as he cannot attain salvation by earning it. Eternal salvation is received in one way only -- as a free gift which is taken possession of through simple faith in Christ.

Listen further. Sin is not the issue in salvation. Jesus Christ paid the penalty for every sin that ever has been and ever will be committed in the human race. Therefore, where the barrier of sin once stood, there is now only a line that must be walked over through one simple act of non-meritorous faith in Christ. Once having placed your faith in Christ, you are eternally saved.

Listen further still. When one dies having refused God's offer of salvation through faith in Christ, he will still die in his sins as Jesus said (John 8:24). Now, those sins were paid for already by Christ, so the unbeliever will not be judged on the basis of those sins. He will instead be judged on the basis of His works as per Revelation 20:11-15.

Those who place their faith in Jesus Christ (the true Jesus. Not a Jesus they have created in their imagination while rejecting the Biblically revealed Jesus) will spend eternity in the presence of God.

Those who die having never received Jesus Christ as Savior wil spend eternity in the place commonly called 'hell', eternally separated from God.

Last edited by Mike555; 08-15-2011 at 03:26 PM..
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:55 PM
 
37,579 posts, read 25,282,626 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Mike, here's the question ... Do you understand that when one believes that Christ has revealed that God IS love and is not holding sins against people, then one does not believe there is a need to "earn salvation" (as it is defined by ETers)?
One recognizes the Spirit of God/Love within and desires to walk in that Spirit, not out of fear of God's wrath, but simply out of the desire to love.
I know that you don't agree, but can you at least understand what's being said?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
No...I don't think he can. It's been brought to his attention a number of times and still seems to fly right over his head no matter how you attempt to explain it to him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Well, I know it often takes me many times of hearing a new concept from different people and in different ways before I fully comprehend where they are really coming from... Of course, it's also dependent upon me actually wanting to understand the other person's point of view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
bingo!!!
To be fair to Mike . . . he isn't trying to understand. But I am sure he is more than capable of doing so. Instead . . . he is wrapping himself in the security blanket of dogma while reciting the magical incantation of "through faith alone in Christ alone." When you believe in magical principalities and spiritual warfare among celestial beings with powers beyond our poor abilities . . . such supernatural "armor" and protection is essential.
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:10 PM
 
3,581 posts, read 457,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
To be fair to Mike . . . he isn't trying to understand. But I am sure he is more than capable of doing so. Instead . . . he is wrapping himself in the security blanket of dogma while reciting the magical incantation of "through faith alone in Christ alone." When you believe in magical principalities and spiritual warfare among celestial beings with powers beyond our poor abilities . . . such supernatural "armor" and protection is essential.
I believe that is correct ..... also there is a fear of having a different view point or interpretation because of the fear of apostasy from religion of christianity
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,032,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Those who die having never received Jesus Christ as Savior wil spend eternity in the place commonly called 'hell', eternally separated from God.
Why?
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:43 PM
 
15,057 posts, read 7,560,189 times
Reputation: 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
To be fair to Mike . . . he isn't trying to understand. But I am sure he is more than capable of doing so.
I honestly wasn't questioning his intelligence. Sorry if it came off that way, Mike. But, gathering from your 5 paragraph response to my yes/no question I'm guessing that, as Mystic says, you're not interested in understanding so I'll leave it alone.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:09 PM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,674,976 times
Reputation: 7436
Quote:
Originally Posted by einsteinsghost View Post

quote:
Originally posted by mike555
those who die having never received jesus christ as savior wil spend eternity in the place commonly called 'hell', eternally separated from god.



Quote:
why?
Because God is perfect Righteousness. And God's perfect Righteousness cannot allow into a relationship with Him any creature who does not possess a righteousness equal to His.

God requires a volitional decision on the part of any member of the human race who is mentally able to understand the issue in salvation, to place his faith in Christ for salvation. Because of the work of Christ on the cross, the issue of sin is resolved. The only issue is whether a person will accept Christ as his personal Savior or not.

If and when a person receives Christ as Savior, God imputes His very own absolute perfect Righteousness to that person, as well as imputing His eternal life to that person. The church-age believer also shares the righteousness and eternal life of Jesus Christ by virtue of being in union with Christ through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

As a result of having both the absolute perfect Righteousness and eternal life of God imputed to him, the believer is qualified to live in the presence of God forever.

The unbeliever does not have the imputed Righteousness or eternal life of God imputed to him and so is not qualified to live with God forever. Instead, all the unbeliever has is his own relative human righteousness which cannot measure up to God's Righteousness, and therfore he must spend the eternal future separated from God in the place commonly referred to as 'hell'. In Revelation 20:11-15, the unbeliever is standing before Jesus Christ at the great white throne judgement. And the basis of degree of punishment is his works which are the product of his human righteousness. The second death mentioned in Revelation 20:14 is eternal separation from God in the lake of fire.

This simple thing, the universalist cannot understand and so he rejects it. Not understanding and not respecting the holiness of God, the universalist claims that a loving God would never sentence anyone to hell.
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