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Old 08-11-2011, 10:12 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I'm not interested in your attempts to dispute what the Scriptures say. God knows who will ultimately come to believe the truth and those who never will. The truth being rejected is the truth of the gospel message concerning Christ. Those who refuse to believe the gospel have only the lie left to believe.





God is much more than just love. His other attributes are separate from His love though they all function in harmony with each other. As I said, God's love must be focused through His Justice. Since the fall, mans point of contact with God is divine Justice. Not love.



Did I say it was wrong to focus on God's love? No, I did not. But to ignore God's holiness and say that because God is love He would not impose eternal punishment on those who reject His provision for eternal salvation distorts God's character.

And you have NOT understood. You are very ignorant, and willingly so, of what the Scriptures teach concerning God and His plan.

You consistantly disregard what the Scriptures say. You say that God does not impose punishment in retribution. But the Scriptures say, as in 2 Thess 1:6 'For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7] and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8] dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9] And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.

When the Lord returns at the end of the tribulation, EVERY tribulational unbeliever who has survived to the end of the tribulation, will be cast into the eternal fire as per Matthew 25:41.

And you, and the rest of the universalists can reject that truth as much as your rebellous hearts desire, and it will not change the truth.

End comment. Others will engage you in endless back and forth arguing on the subject. I will not.

Of course you do not like back and forth dialog, that would mean you was having a discussion, rather than hiding in the fallacy of your assertions.

Whether or not you have spoken the exact words that it is wrong to focus on love is a redirection from the conclusion of your comments.

If only focusing upon Gods love and seeing something different in his character than you do will ultimatly cause someone to end up being cast into fire and remain there endlessly then indeed, ultimatly there is no real difference in what I have made a point about.

If focusing only upon Gods love is NOT wrong, then ultimatly it WILL NOT cause one to end up in a state of endless tribulation.

Since you conclude that it is a distortion of who he is, then ultimatly to you it is wrong, otherwise you would not connect the dots from that to eternal damnation of a soul.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:18 AM
 
20,291 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
There is no need for God to execute judgment, justice or punishment to anyone (especially after our spirit leaves this human form)...God IS NOT human and DOES NOT have the human attributes that humanity insists God does...don't you get that???????? There is a universal law that governs us regarding the consequences we face when we are in disharmony with God...it is called KARMA or better known to you as REAPING AND SOWING...which is executed in this life only and is a direct result of our ACTIONS...You GET what you GIVE.

You will one day learn that GOD IS PURE UNCONDITIONAL AGAPE LOVE...and you will rejoice in the fact that you FINALLY learned it.
You are in direct contradiction of the Scriptures. God does indeed execute Judgment in satisfying the demands of His Righteousness. And this is what YOU do not 'get'.

Because you reject the truth that the Bible is the word of God, you feel free to attribute anything in the Scriptures that you don't like, as being from man.

Those human attributes which the Bible ascribes to God are called anthropopathisms. God gracously allowed the use of anthropopathisms which are language of accomodation, in order to better communicate to the finite mind of man, the policies of infinite God toward sin and evil in terms that man can understand. God's holiness demands that He execute judgment on sin and evil. And that means that those who reject God's provision for salvation which involves imputing His Perfect Righteousness to the one who believes in Christ, must stand on their own human righteousness. And God cannot accept human righteousness because it does not measure up to His own. For that reason, they must remain eternally separated from God.

All who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior before they die, will be eternally separated from God in hell.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,115,922 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Of course you do not like back and forth dialog, that would mean you was having a discussion, rather than hiding in the fallacy of your assertions.

Whether or not you have spoken the exact words that it is wrong to focus on love is a redirection from the conclusion of your comments.

If only focusing upon Gods love and seeing something different in his character than you do will ultimatly cause someone to end up being cast into fire and remain there endlessly then indeed, ultimatly there is no real difference in what I have made a point about.

If focusing only upon Gods love is NOT wrong, then ultimatly it WILL NOT cause one to end up in a state of endless tribulation.

Since you conclude that it is a distortion of who he is, then ultimatly to you it is wrong, otherwise you would not connect the dots from that to eternal damnation of a soul.
Seriously...It truly leaves me in utter awe and astonishment...the kinds of sick twisted minds that could ever think or even speculate that a person who focuses on GODS LOVE could or would ever be punished for that.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,115,922 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You are in direct contradiction of the Scriptures. God does indeed execute Judgment in satisfying the demands of His Righteousness. And this is what YOU do not 'get'.

Because you reject the truth that the Bible is the word of God, you feel free to attribute anything in the Scriptures that you don't like, as being from man.

Those human attributes which the Bible ascribes to God are called anthropopathisms. God gracously allowed the use of anthropopathisms which are language of accomodation, in order to better communicate to the finite mind of man, the policies of infinite God toward sin and evil in terms that man can understand. God's holiness demands that He execute judgment on sin and evil. And that means that those who reject God's provision for salvation which involves imputing His Perfect Righteousness to the one who believes in Christ, must stand on their own human righteousness. And God cannot accept human righteousness because it does not measure up to His own. For that reason, they must remain eternally separated from God.

All who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior before they die, will be eternally separated from God in hell.
Like I said previously Mike...you will one day learn that GOD IS PURE UNCONDITIONAL AGAPE LOVE...and you will rejoice that you finally learned it...it's INEVITABLE!!!!!

BTW...Jesus and I are buds...so it's ALL good!!!
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:26 AM
 
20,291 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Seriously...It truly leaves me in utter awe and astonishment...the kinds of sick twisted minds that could ever think or even speculate that a person who focuses on GODS LOVE could or would ever be punished for that.
I did not even remotely say that focusing on God's love results in punishment. What I said is in my post (see post #40) for all to read. Let those who twist what I said, twist it.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:32 AM
 
166 posts, read 133,818 times
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From mike 555:

Quote:
The reason God sends strong delusion on those who have first rejected the truth is to execute justice (2 Thess 1:6). The consequences of rejection of the truth of the Gospel message is eternal condemnation for those who have chosen to not believe the truth (2 Thess 1:8-9).
To me to think God sends strong delusion because one has rejected the message, is equal to a fireman showing up at the scene of a fire with a bucket of gasoline.

Come on, even a simple man with his limited knowledge knows that if there is a malfunction of proper or normal thought you don't continue or increase the things that causes the abnormalities.

another conclusion that i have is that we are told by Jesus to be like our father, and He tells us some of what and who He is, here is just one example:

Luke 6-34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.


The bolded part is what my main point is.
mainstream churchianity thinks an all powerful and loving being eternally torturing the vast majority of His creation is being good and loving.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:36 AM
 
20,291 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Like I said previously Mike...you will one day learn that GOD IS PURE UNCONDITIONAL AGAPE LOVE...and you will rejoice that you finally learned it...it's INEVITABLE!!!!!

BTW...Jesus and I are buds...so it's ALL good!!!
You don't even know Jesus. You have believed in a false Christ. I already know that God is love. God is also, holy, holy, holy. And God speaks more of His holiness than He does His love. And He will judge both believers (for the purpose of rewards), and unbelievers for the purpose of degree of punishment in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).

Now as with the other poster, further dialog with you is pointless. You have rejected Biblical truth for cosmic doctrines. You can do your arguing with those who want to waste their time arguing. I have stated the truth and that is enough. And no, just in case you attempt to make the claim, I did not say that it is a cosmic doctrine that God is love.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:38 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,073 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You consistantly disregard what the Scriptures say. You say that God does not impose punishment in retribution. But the Scriptures say, as in 2 Thess 1:6 'For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7] and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8] dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9] And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.

No , Mike, it IS true that I disagree with you, but your fallacy is exposed when you assert what you say as unquestionably true. You could be correct, but scripture demonstrates that you may be wrong and that you must have a willing heart to have that exposed.

It is a grave error to accuse me of disregarding the scriptures and what they say, since I do not. You may not agree that I am believing a correct interpretation of them and there is no problem with that. However to say I disregaurd them because I do not conform to your religious doctrine is just flat wrong.

What I said was that God does not punish in the human emotion of retribution. That was followed by an explanation of Gods character and attributes concerning the purpose of them through LOVE.

But this is why again you do not like back and forth dialog, because when your errors are exposed you have a hard time dealing with it and just resport to baseless accusations that you cann support with any substance.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:43 AM
 
20,291 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
No , Mike, it IS true that I disagree with you, but your fallacy is exposed when you assert what you say as unquestionably true. You could be correct, but scripture demonstrates that you may be wrong and that you must have a willing heart to have that exposed.

It is a grave error to accuse me of disregarding the scriptures and what they say, since I do not. You may not agree that I am believing a correct interpretation of them and there is no problem with that. However to say I disregaurd them because I do not conform to your religious doctrine is just flat wrong.

What I said was that God does not punish in the human emotion of retribution. That was followed by an explanation of Gods character and attributes concerning the purpose of them through LOVE.

But this is why again you do not like back and forth dialog, because when your errors are exposed you have a hard time dealing with it and just resport to baseless accusations that you cann support with any substance.
Trying to bait me into continued arguing doesn't work. Having spoken the truth, I am now done with this.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:43 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,073 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You don't even know Jesus. You have believed in a false Christ. I already know that God is love. God is also, holy, holy, holy. And God speaks more of His holiness than He does His love. And He will judge both believers (for the purpose of rewards), and unbelievers for the purpose of degree of punishment in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).

Now as with the other poster, futher dialog with you is pointless. You have rejected Biblical truth for cosmic doctrines.

The only reason you will bow out now is because further dialog will prove your accusation of someone following a false Christ to be an error on your part. I would say that IF your logic of accusation is correct, then it is you who are following a false Christ. But then, there is the fallacy and why such accusations are completely meaningless for the most part.
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