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Old 08-30-2011, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
35,855 posts, read 12,984,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
OF course not . . . war is not part of the Gospel . . . it is part of the Old Bad News of the OT. War is the province of men, period . . . God has absolutely nothing to do with it . . . except as an excuse for men.
How can you believe death is the good news?
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:58 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 1,765,664 times
Reputation: 1019
Matthew 7

"13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. "



Revelation 20

"10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."


"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope." 1 Thessalonians 4:13 KJV



John 3:18-20 (KJV)

"18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
"


Revelation 22

"18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. "



2 Timothy 4:2-4 (KJV)

"2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,621 posts, read 6,998,222 times
Reputation: 3631
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I like your analogy of the lifeguard. Man has been drowning ever since God put him in the water with a 2,000-lb cement block on his back, which we call "Adam." It was God who put us in the water, not ourselves.

Fortunately, He has taken us all out of the water again through His lifeguard, Jesus. Jesus is the best lifeguard around! He doesn't fail in saving us. When we were at our lowest point, He saved us!

So a lifeguard who just sits around all day may still be called a lifeguard, but it's his responsibility to make sure no life is lost whatsoever. Otherwise, he should consider changing jobs.


Blessings in Christ our Lifesaver! Brian
So.. why is it then, that as a once-devout young Christian (in my late teens, and through until I was about 25 or so...), I wanted and asked for help from the ministry, and I asked several ministers, and even (OMG!) an older well-loved and eloquent priest from the RC Church, about some of the issues I was questioning.

My own minister (from The United Church Of Canada), after waffling for several weeks in my after-sermon follow-ups with him in the halls of the church, eventually told me I was being impertinent, and that I should not be questioning the word of The Lord God!

Through this same time period, I had embarked on my second degree, in biology, genetics and so on. My previous education was also logic-based (engineering), and so I came well prepared on the ways and means to get unbiased, documented answers to life's persistent questions! and by the time I was into my thirties, I had four degrees, plus a lot of real-world research and truth-seeking experience under my belt.

I was thus in no mood to be trifled with by pikers and nay-sayers who only seemed capable of subterfuge and deception. I sill have no patience for those types.

But try as I might for well over 8 years, your so-called God, and his friend Jesus, failed me, through their supposed official voices in the church.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The problem, Finn is that you do absolutely no thinking about the implications of what you believe . . . none. Then when someone who does think presents some of the implications of your beliefs you call it inventing silly arguments. Try thinking for yourself about the implications of what you believe for a change . . so we don't have to do it for you.

Hmmm...I see you have some of the same problems over here as you have over on "our" side, Mystic. Good luck, old pal!
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
35,855 posts, read 12,984,693 times
Reputation: 4465
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Matthew 7

"13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. "


Revelation 20

"10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope." 1 Thessalonians 4:13 KJV



John 3:18-20 (KJV)

"18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."


Revelation 22

"18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. "


2 Timothy 4:2-4 (KJV)

"2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”


He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’ 28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:00 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 1,765,664 times
Reputation: 1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
So.. why is it then, that as a once-devout young Christian (in my late teens, and through until I was about 25 or so...), I wanted and asked for help from the ministry, and I asked several ministers, and even (OMG!) an older well-loved and eloquent priest from the RC Church, about some of the issues I was questioning.

My own minister (from The United Church Of Canada), after waffling for several weeks in my after-sermon follow-ups with him in the halls of the church, eventually told me I was being impertinent, and that I should not be questioning the word of The Lord God!

Through this same time period, I had embarked on my second degree, in biology, genetics and so on. My previous education was also logic-based (engineering), and so I came well prepared on the ways and means to get unbiased, documented answers to life's persistent questions! and by the time I was into my thirties, I had four degrees, plus a lot of real-world research and truth-seeking experience under my belt.

I was thus in no mood to be trifled with by pikers and nay-sayers who only seemed capable of subterfuge and deception. I sill have no patience for those types.

But try as I might for well over 8 years, your so-called God, and his friend Jesus, failed me, through their supposed official voices in the church.

Hmmm...I see you have some of the same problems over here as you have over on "our" side, Mystic. Good luck, old pal!
What were the issues you were questioning? Sounds like whatever it was, it contradicting the Word of God. How does this all relate to the number of degrees one has?

Let me suggest a couple avenues if you are still looking for answers.

For authentication of the scriptures look up "Dr. Chuck Missler."

For evidence of young earth and creation look up "Dr. Kent Hovind."

To understand how Biblical Christianity is different than other Religions Moderator cut: delete look up "Dr. Walter Martin" and William/Bill Cooper.

There are two sides to the story. The only barrier to truth is presuming we already have it without looking at the other side of the story. It sounds like emotions are playing a part and that is always dangerous.

No reasonable engineer would conclude that their product evolved from random chance. Any honest Biologist would throw the evolution religion out the window understanding the symbiotic relation or the universe and the probably statistics for such an event. Not to mention it hasn't been observed. Any genetic expert would proclaim DNA is an organized book of information highly regulated not random data. Not to mention abiogenesis has never been observed in nature, mutations tend to drive species to extinction, et al.

You can prove intelligent design and a creator. God holds us accountable based on the creation alone. There's even a judgement pronounced for those that reject him as the creator (read Romans 1.) As Christians, our job is to help people understand the concept and need for redemption. Both the earth and us are under a curse that is run by a usurping spirit the Scriptures call Satan (2 Corinthians 4:4) which blinds the truth and works in nonbelievers. All signs point to his time being almost up.

The #1 best thing everyone can do is be open to the other side of the coin, and look into it. I've provided some good leads.

Last edited by june 7th; 08-30-2011 at 05:43 PM..
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,966 posts, read 3,023,080 times
Reputation: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”


He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’ 28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God
No doubt these scriptures could rattle the faith of the "once saved always saved" crowd. My faith is not in the bible. My faith is in God. All men are evil doers. Christ died for the ungodly. You have to make all the scriptures work properly by RIGHTLY DIVIDING THEM. The fearful will be hurt in the LOF.
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:04 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 1,765,664 times
Reputation: 1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”


He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’ 28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God

Finn what's the passages and translation you are quoting from. Thanks.
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
35,855 posts, read 12,984,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Finn what's the passages and translation you are quoting from. Thanks.
Luke 13
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:11 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 1,765,664 times
Reputation: 1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
No doubt these scriptures could rattle the faith of the "once saved always saved" crowd. My faith is not in the bible. My faith is in God. All men are evil doers. Christ died for the ungodly. You have to make all the scriptures work properly by RIGHTLY DIVIDING THEM. The fearful will be hurt in the LOF.
I believe in once-saved always saved, and you see the passages provided. In John 10 Jesus talks about his Sheep that he won't lose. He defines his Sheep as those who hear his voice. In other parables he describes the concept of abiding in him. One of his titles is "the Word" and he even states to search the scripture in which we think we have eternal life. This is confirmed by the "he who has ears to hear" phrases in the Book of Revelation. So abiding in him is abiding in the Word. Abiding in the word is obeying the Son of God Messiah Jesus producing fruit for the kingdom by being transformed by the renewing of one's mind from the heart.

If you are born again of incorruptible seed and feel the Holy Spirit convicting you sin while obeying the word, I believe you can be assured in your salvation. No fear of condemnation and focus on a relationship with the Father in Jesus. I do believe it's clear what he wants is our hearts to be his children. Children respond to correction. We are made in his image, and I do believe the concept of and earthly father and child relationship is comparable to the relationship he would want of us. There's nothing more frustrating than a child that is unthankful and rebellious not listening to correction.

I think if we are responding to the conviction of the Holy Spirit putting his will before ours we are on the good path with all eyes on Messiah Jesus walking to him depending on his righteousness.
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:13 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 526,839 times
Reputation: 169
Written in Luke -

39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us!”
40But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.f
43Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”


One criminal went to be with Jesus, and the other criminal did not.


NOT ALL WILL BE SAVED.
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