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Pleroo - I was certainly taught that in every church I ever attended - that we must exclude all others, including other Christians who did not believe as we did. That is why I finally wound my way down to joining a Fundamentalist Baptist Church - it is about as exclusive as you can get in the "churchy" sense. They even think regular Southern Baptists are "too liberal".
Yes, Twin & I both come from a Lutheran background, and both from conservative synods of that denomination which do not consider themselves in "fellowship" with much of the rest of Christianity. The pastor at my current church actually used the term "Jesus club" in a sermon recently... Regardless, that exclusivism is instrinsic to the teaching of eternal torment/separation from God for the majority of mankind, even if the term isn't used. And many (probably most) of us who are/were ET believers take/took that attitude on board, often subconsciously.
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But for myself, I have been in the place similar to that of Job where I depised my own self and my very existence. I've been between the proberbial rock and hard place (spiritually speaking) and it was not a pleasant experience. I don't know if everyone has to go there or not. I hope not, but I don't know if it is required of everyone to taste that bitter cup. Jesus spoke to his followers of drinking the cup that he drank. It was not a joyous thing for Jesus - he even prayed that if there were any other way that the Father might let that cup pass from him. I sometimes refer to it as the valley of the skull. I wrote a poem about it.
Yes, Twin & I both come from a Lutheran background, and both from conservative synods of that denomination which do not consider themselves in "fellowship" with much of the rest of Christianity. The pastor at my current church actually used the term "Jesus club" in a sermon recently... Regardless, that exclusivism is instrinsic to the teaching of eternal torment/separation from God for the majority of mankind, even if the term isn't used. And many (probably most) of us who are/were ET believers take/took that attitude on board, often subconsciously.
Recently? Why do you still go to that church if you have such low opinon of them?
He is living up to His promise because He brought salvation to all, and promised to save all who believe in Him. If some choose to reject Him, then it takes nothing away from Jesus keeping His promises. He NEVER said he will save everyone, but only those who believe. If He saved even one person who rejected Him, it would make Him a liar.
No, it would not mean that. Obama is the president of all American even those who did not vote for him and even hate him. It does nothing to change his title as president of all Americans. Jesus is "the" saviour as there are no other saviours around.
You have completely misunderstood the core message of Christ. Unfortunately I think the misunderstanding is deliberate, because the requirement of faith is repeated some 200 times in the Bible, and to ignore them all demonstrates wanton disregard for the word of God. Instead of accepting those verses as the truth you cling to one alternate way of understanding one verse.
And that my brother is NOT what the scriptures state, they state He IS the saviour of the world.
If 10 people are drowning and I jump into the water and save only 3 can I be said to be the saviour of all 10.
And that my brother is NOT what the scriptures state, they state He IS the saviour of the world.
If 10 people are drowning and I jump into the water and save only 3 can I be said to be the saviour of all 10.
3+0 does NOT = 10
But that is what you believe.
I saved a persons life before ... Actually more than one, and on more than one occasion. When you think about it, if the circumstances were right, i could potentially save everyone in the world also ... So i guess that makes me every bit as much the savior of the world as Jesus ... Right? Except i could do it with out anyone ever even knowing i existed, so i guess that makes me even more potentially the savior of the world.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 08-29-2011 at 04:42 PM..
Jesus is the savior of all; however, not all want to be saved.
So it's about our wants? I don't think so. Salvation comes when God ordains it for each person. I do think some people are mis-informed and confused about what salvation IS and what it is NOT. But we'll save that for a different thread.
Jesus is the savior of all; however, not all want to be saved.
I see, I guess most fundies are the type of people who require written permission from a drowning person before they will attempt to save them.
I can see a fundie life guard in court being sued for neglegence using that as his defense for not saving a drowing child who was unable to ask for help because they had no control over the situation with all the water rushing into their lungs and all ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 08-29-2011 at 04:00 PM..
Yes, Twin & I both come from a Lutheran background, and both from conservative synods of that denomination which do not consider themselves in "fellowship" with much of the rest of Christianity. The pastor at my current church actually used the term "Jesus club" in a sermon recently...
Perhaps he was talking about some kind of big stick -- "Jesus Club", hehehe,.,.
The poem is not specifically about my experience, but generally about that hard place:
Last edited by Heartsong; 08-29-2011 at 03:58 PM..
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