U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 09-01-2011, 10:14 AM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 57,038 times
Reputation: 22

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Morning August, I wanted you to take a look at what you have said in regards to the assumption of Mary.







Then I asked

Has the assumption of Mary not been made an infallible doctrine?

You replied



So how can two infallible popes condemn the doctrine of the assumption of Mary, yet now it is an infallible doctrine?
Morning, Pneuma! Like I said, because the Church didn't agree with the wording of the writer of the book, not the doctrine itself. Just like if I sent you my Grandmother's recipe for spaghetti for your cookbook and you omitted some ingredients because you don't like them, you would hardly get my approval.


Blessings,

augusta
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-01-2011, 10:21 AM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 57,038 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
By taking every thought captive to Christ.



The lying pen of the scribes have a lot to answer for

http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/1347355-if-you-believe-jesus-why-not-25.html

Post 242 & 243
Pneuma, don't let yourself get sucked in by conspiracy theories.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2011, 11:26 AM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 57,038 times
Reputation: 22
FACT
Jeremiah said the lying pen of the scribes added to the Laws of Moses

That last part above ("
added to the Laws of Moses") is what was added here because it isn't in Jer 8:8. If this were true then there would have been a major revolt going on and much more about it in Jer. than one little blurb.


FACT
Paul said all scripture (not bible) is given by inspiration of God

Yes, but Paul didn't specify what constituted scripture.

FACT
The bible in use in the time of Christ was the Septuagint.

Agree, and the Catholics still use it.

FACT
The Septuagint contains these books- I Esdras, Tobit, Judith, I Maccabees, II Maccabees,
III Maccabees, IV Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Osee, Michaeas, Ambacum, Sophonias
Aggaeus
So if you do not believe these books are inspired by God as they were in the bible at the time Paul said all scripture is inspired by God are you not being hypocritical in your thoughts toward me for saying not everything in our bibles is scripture?
FACT
Justin Martyr in his discourse with Trypho the Jew stated that the scribes had deleted scriptures from the bible that plainly identified Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

I'm still reading this one so it'll be a while.

FACT
These books I Esdras, Tobit, Judith, I Maccabees, II Maccabees,
III Maccabees, IV Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Osee, Michaeas, Ambacum, Sophonias
Aggaeus
Have been deleted out of almost every bible today. Proving man has tampered with God word, as they were in the bible when Paul said all scripture is inspired by God.
FACT
1Jn.5:7 And Mk.16:9-20 are not in the oldest and best manuscripts but are an interpolation.
Again proving man tampered with the bible.

What we do know is this: there were many writings floating around. But since the Perfect has come and the Church has spoken, we can now rest assured that all of the books (73) are the inspired Word of God.

FACT
The Babylonian Code of Hammurabi was written 200+ years before Moses wrote the law
FACT
The law of an eye for an eye comes from the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi
196


If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out. [ An eye for an eye ]

Now you know where the lying pen of the scribes stole the law an eye for an eye from, adding it to the Laws of Moses and attributed it to Moses.

No, just that Satan do love to imitate.




Last edited by Augusta33; 09-01-2011 at 11:32 AM.. Reason: separate & color my posts
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2011, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,292 posts, read 1,668,341 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusta33 View Post
Morning, Pneuma! Like I said, because the Church didn't agree with the wording of the writer of the book, not the doctrine itself. Just like if I sent you my Grandmother's recipe for spaghetti for your cookbook and you omitted some ingredients because you don't like them, you would hardly get my approval.


Blessings,

augusta


Seriously, that is how you are going to get around this. I don't buy it sis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,292 posts, read 1,668,341 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusta33 View Post
Pneuma, don't let yourself get sucked in by conspiracy theories.
Actually I am the writer of those two posts sis. No conspiracy, just plain ole me
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2011, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,292 posts, read 1,668,341 times
Reputation: 247
FACT
Jeremiah said the lying pen of the scribes added to the Laws of Moses

Quote:
That last part above ("added to the Laws of Moses") is what was added here because it isn't in Jer 8:8. If this were true then there would have been a major revolt going on and much more about it in Jer. than one little blurb.


While it is there in Jer 8:8 sis, every translation I have read has it, they word it a little differently in each but it is there. And why would there be a revolt when it was the scribes who did this themselves, which I would presume on the sly, or because they held the power.


FACT
Paul said all scripture (not bible) is given by inspiration of God

Quote:
Yes, but Paul didn't specify what constituted scripture.


Correct, and totally to my point.

FACT
Justin Martyr in his discourse with Trypho the Jew stated that the scribes had deleted scriptures from the bible that plainly identified Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

Quote:
I'm still reading this one so it'll be a while.


Good and when you finish it you will see that Justin Martyr indeed said the scribes had deleted scripture that clearly showed Jesus Christ was the Messiah.

And when you find this out are you going to blame Justin Martyr of falsehood, or are you going to believe him.

And if they deleted scripture as Justin says they did is it really so hard to believe Jeremiah when he states they also added to the law of Moses.

FACT
1Jn.5:7 And Mk.16:9-20 are not in the oldest and best manuscripts but are an interpolation.
Again proving man tampered with the bible.

Quote:
What we do know is this: there were many writings floating around. But since the Perfect has come and the Church has spoken, we can now rest assured that all of the books (73) are the inspired Word of God.


That does not cut it sis, your using your church dogma to support the additions. That in my opinion could very well be how the scribes could get away with adding to the law of Moses without an uprising. Thanks for strengthening my case.

FACT
The Babylonian Code of Hammurabi was written 200+ years before Moses wrote the law
FACT
The law of an eye for an eye comes from the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi
196


If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out. [ An eye for an eye ]

Now you know where the lying pen of the scribes stole the law an eye for an eye from, adding it to the Laws of Moses and attributed it to Moses.

Quote:
No, just that Satan do love to imitate.


August, the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi was written 200+ years BEFORE the laws of Moses, so who is imitating who?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 12:39 AM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 57,038 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Seriously, that is how you are going to get around this. I don't buy it sis.

Pneuma, I read that in that book he said that all the apostles "floated in on clouds from all over the world" to Mary's house at her death. The Church has never held such a belief as this. Like I said before, Mary's assumption was a widespread belief, but like most beliefs lots of people added their own spin to it. And this was precisely why the doctrine was ultimately defined. If you believe that a pope would put his stamp on just anything someone writes then you are seriously mistaken. There are lots of writings from the Early Church Fathers themselves who made it on the disproved list.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 12:42 AM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 57,038 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Actually I am the writer of those two posts sis. No conspiracy, just plain ole me

I read the same arguments all over the net. Some from Christians and some from atheists.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 01:50 AM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 57,038 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
FACT
Jeremiah said the lying pen of the scribes added to the Laws of Moses



While it is there in Jer 8:8 sis, every translation I have read has it, they word it a little differently in each but it is there. And why would there be a revolt when it was the scribes who did this themselves, which I would presume on the sly, or because they held the power.

Well here it is, pneuma: "How can you say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us," when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?"

It says nothing about the Mosaic law. And I'm sure there would have been a revolt by the Jews if any scribe was caught tampering with Scripture. Also if you read this objectively the "false pen of the scribes" part isn't the point of the passage anyway. I think it's simply a case of hyperbole myself.

FACT
Paul said all scripture (not bible) is given by inspiration of God



Correct, and totally to my point.

So we are to each individually choose which scriptures we believe are authentic? Could you imagine the chaos that would ensue with that?

FACT
Justin Martyr in his discourse with Trypho the Jew stated that the scribes had deleted scriptures from the bible that plainly identified Jesus Christ as the Messiah.



Good and when you finish it you will see that Justin Martyr indeed said the scribes had deleted scripture that clearly showed Jesus Christ was the Messiah.

And when you find this out are you going to blame Justin Martyr of falsehood, or are you going to believe him.

And if they deleted scripture as Justin says they did is it really so hard to believe Jeremiah when he states they also added to the law of Moses.

Well Justin Martyr isn't exactly infallible. Not to mention he could have had a bone to pick or he simply may have just been mistaken. But I will do some further research on this when I get time and get back with you.


FACT
1Jn.5:7 And Mk.16:9-20 are not in the oldest and best manuscripts but are an interpolation.
Again proving man tampered with the bible.



That does not cut it sis, your using your church dogma to support the additions. That in my opinion could very well be how the scribes could get away with adding to the law of Moses without an uprising. Thanks for strengthening my case.

Pneuma, why are you allowed to personally chose the canon but deny the Church the same right? Remember, Luther removed the books that came from the Septuagint but you don't seem to have a problem with that, even though you posted in support of them. It seems you are so biased against the Catholic Church that you're creating a conundrum for yourself.

FACT
The Babylonian Code of Hammurabi was written 200+ years before Moses wrote the law
FACT
The law of an eye for an eye comes from the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi
196


If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out. [ An eye for an eye ]

Now you know where the lying pen of the scribes stole the law an eye for an eye from, adding it to the Laws of Moses and attributed it to Moses.



August, the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi was written 200+ years BEFORE the laws of Moses, so who is imitating who?
Pneuma, there are many imitations from mythical and other sources that go back way further. Just go to any atheist site and see for yourself. Satan has been around since creation, and he may be many things but stupid isn't one of them. Satan planted these seeds early because he knew it would be very effective, and it was. Like I said, just go to any atheist site...


Brother, please listen to me. Surely you believe that God is powerful enough to convey His unadulterated truth to mankind, whom He wills to be saved? The Lord is not the author of confusion and he doesn't require us to be historians to find His truth. This is why He sent the Holy Spirit to His Church so it could do its job - teach and give us the canon of Scripture. It not only makes sense, it works. This is just one reason why so many Protestants have converted. It takes faith, as Jesus said we must come to Him as a little child.

Blessings.

augusta
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,292 posts, read 1,668,341 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Well here it is, pneuma: "How can you say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us," when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?"

It says nothing about the Mosaic law. And I'm sure there would have been a revolt by the Jews if any scribe was caught tampering with Scripture. Also if you read this objectively the "false pen of the scribes" part isn't the point of the passage anyway. I think it's simply a case of hyperbole myself.


Well what other law do you suppose Jeremiah was talking about. Making it hyperbole is an easy way out.

Quote:
So we are to each individually choose which scriptures we believe are authentic? Could you imagine the chaos that would ensue with that?


No, we are to take every thought captive to Christ to see what He has to say on the matter . If you read what I wrote you seen I did that.

Quote:
Well Justin Martyr isn't exactly infallible. Not to mention he could have had a bone to pick or he simply may have just been mistaken. But I will do some further research on this when I get time and get back with you.


Oh common sis, we have Jeremiah stating it, Justin martyr stating it and the book of revelation warning against it. I guess the warning is for nothing because you simply do not believe it could possible happen.

Quote:
Pneuma, why are you allowed to personally chose the canon but deny the Church the same right? Remember, Luther removed the books that came from the Septuagint but you don't seem to have a problem with that, even though you posted in support of them. It seems you are so biased against the Catholic Church that you're creating a conundrum for yourself.


I don't have a bias against the RCC anymore then any other denomination that would separate the unity of the true church. I know I know the RCC is the true church.

And who said I personally chose any canon? Does taking every thought captive to Christ mean I am choosing canon.

Quote:
Pneuma, there are many imitations from mythical and other sources that go back way further. Just go to any atheist site and see for yourself. Satan has been around since creation, and he may be many things but stupid isn't one of them. Satan planted these seeds early because he knew it would be very effective, and it was. Like I said, just go to any atheist site...


Don't need to go to any site sis, I can see the tares in the bible which Satan planted by the lying pen of the scribes. Remember God planted good seed and Satan planted tares among the wheat. What better way to make God look schizophrenic then to make it look like God can do both evil and good things then to sow it among Gods scriptures.


Quote:
Brother, please listen to me. Surely you believe that God is powerful enough to convey His unadulterated truth to mankind, whom He wills to be saved?


I do believe that sis, however you believe that unadulterated truth is the bible I believe it is Christ Himself. And it is Christ I will follow not the writings of men who wrote under a vail and could not see to the end of their salvation.

Quote:
The Lord is not the author of confusion and he doesn't require us to be historians to find His truth.


I agree He is not the author of confusion, and all one has to do is read the bible and one can see those who wrote under a vail and those who had the vail lifted by Christ present two different pictures of the Father. Who are you going to believe Christ, or those who wrote under a vail?


Quote:
This is why He sent the Holy Spirit to His Church so it could do its job - teach and give us the canon of Scripture. It not only makes sense, it works. This is just one reason why so many Protestants have converted. It takes faith, as Jesus said we must come to Him as a little child.


Sis only Christ is the Word of God and only the comforter is needed to reveal Him (the Word) we need no help from any man, the pope included. You will not understand that sis until you come out from under the teachings of men.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top