U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Halloween!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 09-02-2011, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,072 posts, read 1,535,819 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusta33 View Post
Pneuma, I read that in that book he said that all the apostles "floated in on clouds from all over the world" to Mary's house at her death. The Church has never held such a belief as this. Like I said before, Mary's assumption was a widespread belief, but like most beliefs lots of people added their own spin to it. And this was precisely why the doctrine was ultimately defined. If you believe that a pope would put his stamp on just anything someone writes then you are seriously mistaken. There are lots of writings from the Early Church Fathers themselves who made it on the disproved list.
Did you think that might only be hyperbole.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-02-2011, 12:42 PM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 54,035 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post

Well what other law do you suppose Jeremiah was talking about. Making it hyperbole is an easy way out.


I believe that if it was an issue then there would've been a lot more in not only Jeremiah but other books about it. All you have is one little blurb that no one seemed to take serious. And Jesus or the apostles never mentioned it.

No, we are to take every thought captive to Christ to see what He has to say on the matter . If you read what I wrote you seen I did that.

What did He say? And where did He say it?

Oh common sis, we have Jeremiah stating it, Justin martyr stating it and the book of revelation warning against it. I guess the warning is for nothing because you simply do not believe it could possible happen.


Well the warning in Revelation is only against that book, not the others.
And the canon wasn't fixed at the time of Justin Martyr's writing.


I don't have a bias against the RCC anymore then any other denomination that would separate the unity of the true church. I know I know the RCC is the true church.

How does one find this "unity" ?

The bible says not to forsake assembly. How could we possibly apply that if we all got to pick and choose, not only the books themselves, but individual Scriptures to believe? Assembly would end up being a huge battle instead of a worship service.

And who said I personally chose any canon? Does taking every thought captive to Christ mean I am choosing canon.

Without the bible you wouldn't know who Christ was.


Don't need to go to any site sis, I can see the tares in the bible which Satan planted by the lying pen of the scribes. Remember God planted good seed and Satan planted tares among the wheat. What better way to make God look schizophrenic then to make it look like God can do both evil and good things then to sow it among Gods scriptures.

Among the wheat, not in God's Word. And what evil do you mean?




I do believe that sis, however you believe that unadulterated truth is the bible I believe it is Christ Himself. And it is Christ I will follow not the writings of men who wrote under a vail and could not see to the end of their salvation.

The veil was there for a reason. The law was imperfect but now we have THE Perfect. And it was written that Christ would be a stumbling block to the Jews. Jesus said this Himself.




I agree He is not the author of confusion, and all one has to do is read the bible and one can see those who wrote under a vail and those who had the vail lifted by Christ present two different pictures of the Father. Who are you going to believe Christ, or those who wrote under a vail?

Where do you see two different pictures of the Father?



Sis only Christ is the Word of God and only the comforter is needed to reveal Him (the Word)

So tell me how this works in practical terms.

we need no help from any man, the pope included. You will not understand that sis until you come out from under the teachings of men.

I came away from the teachings of men to the teachings of Christ and His Church. Why do you think He built a Church in the first place?
"and what you have heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will be able to teach others as well." 2 tim 2:2

Would you reject the teachings of these faithful people above ^ as the "teachings of men", as well? This is why we have apostolic succession, so we can know where teachings come from.


God bless, and have a nice day, pneuma.

augusta












.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 12:44 PM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 54,035 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Did you think that might only be hyperbole.
Yep.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2011, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,072 posts, read 1,535,819 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
I believe that if it was an issue then there would've been a lot more in not only Jeremiah but other books about it. All you have is one little blurb that no one seemed to take serious. And Jesus or the apostles never mentioned it.


Seriously sis, that is your take on it. The RCC is a perfect example of how the scribes could get away with adding to the laws of Moses without an uprising. And as to Jesus never mentioning it just read the link I gave, Jesus did mention it and contradicted it, showing what the lying pen of the scribes added to the laws of Moses.


Quote:
What did He say? And where did He say it?


Just read the link sis and you will see what He said about those things.




Quote:
Well the warning in Revelation is only against that book, not the others.
And the canon wasn't fixed at the time of Justin Martyr's writing.


Common sis, think for yourself. Do you really think God was only speaking of one book out of all the other books that were written?

And does it matter if the canon was not fixed at the time of Justin martyr's writing? Paul said all scripture is inspired of God, obviously Justin was taking about the deleting of scripture that was inspired of God as he said they deleted scripture that showed the Messiah (which is prophesy concerning the Messiah) was Jesus Christ.

Case in point, nothing in the bible states that He would be a Nazarene, yet Mathew says that there was a prophesy concerning Christ that He would be. Obviously the scribes deleted that prophesy as it clearly pointed to Christ being the Messiah.



Quote:
How does one find this "unity" ?

The bible says not to forsake assembly. How could we possibly apply that if we all got to pick and choose, not only the books themselves, but individual Scriptures to believe? Assembly would end up being a huge battle instead of a worship service.


Every denomination can boast that claim sis, and they do. Does that make them the true church? Hardly.

Unity is only found in Christ, it is not found in any division of the church and as I have pointed out a couple of time the catholic church was divided, one side becoming the RCC and the other side becoming eastern orthodox.

What supremacy does the RCC have over the eastern orthodox in Christ, they both had there beginning in the catholic church.



Quote:
Without the bible you wouldn't know who Christ was.

file:///C:/Users/Scott/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif (broken link)

Nonsense, how did anyone know Christ before any scripture was written. The Holy Spirit and him alone teaches of Christ, scripture itself proclaims this, yet you do not believe it. Talk about irony



Quote:
Among the wheat, not in God's Word. And what evil do you mean?


While what do you think the wheat and tares are sis, they ain't people they are the thoughts that people put into action.

Any evil, the OT speaks of God doing evil, the NT says God has nothing to do with evil.



Quote:
The veil was there for a reason. The law was imperfect but now we have THE Perfect. And it was written that Christ would be a stumbling block to the Jews. Jesus said this Himself.


And the vail is still there sis. If you still see a God of good and evil you are shrouded in the vail of ignorance. Christ does away with this vail but few listen to Him.




Quote:

Where do you see two different pictures of the Father?


I take it that is a serious question. Are you well read in scripture? If so you cannot fail to see two different pictures of the Father. The OT's picture of the Father was one of a Father who does evil and good, the NT's picture of the Father is one of a Father that cannot do evil, but does good.



Quote:

So tell me how this works in practical terms.


Buy our spirit bearing witness with the spirit of God


Quote:
I came away from the teachings of men to the teachings of Christ and His Church. Why do you think He built a Church in the first place?



Hardly, you went from one teacher of men to another


Quote:
"and what you have heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will be able to teach others as well." 2 tim 2:2
Would you reject the teachings of these faithful people above ^ as the "teachings of men", as well?


No I don't reject the teaching of Christ apostles, the pope is not one of Christ apostles.

Again I will state that when one teaches it is so that those being taught will come to the same maturity in Christ as the one who is teaching, this is something no pope will ever do.

Quote:
This is why we have apostolic succession, so we can know where teachings come from.


Nonsense, are you going to believe the scriptures or the saying of men. The scriptures tell us that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Therefore all we need is the Holy Spirit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2011, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,072 posts, read 1,535,819 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusta33 View Post
Yep.
Then why would the RCC reject it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2011, 08:15 AM
 
768 posts, read 300,145 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Therefore all we need is the Holy Spirit.
Explain how that theory has worked for Christianity for the past 5 centuries?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2011, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,072 posts, read 1,535,819 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodToBeHome View Post
Explain how that theory has worked for Christianity for the past 5 centuries?
Do not need to explain it, it is written in scripture, you either believe it or you don't.



But to put the question back on you tell me how well the RCC has done since the time of its creation.

Let's see they have had witch hunts, inquisitions, murders, wars, crusades, the selling of salvation etc. all in the name of some pope.

Does that sound to you like they were following the Holy Spirit?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2011, 08:40 PM
 
768 posts, read 300,145 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Do not need to explain it, it is written in scripture, you either believe it or you don't.



But to put the question back on you tell me how well the RCC has done since the time of its creation.

Let's see they have had witch hunts, inquisitions, murders, wars, crusades, the selling of salvation etc. all in the name of some pope.

Does that sound to you like they were following the Holy Spirit?
The Catholic Church hasn't been a perfect organization, but their deposit of the faith is. If humans are involved, it's never perfect. No one is arguing that the Holy Spirit works through folks, but apparently we are not listening.

If you have children, how do you know that you know that what you are teaching them the way to salvation. If you compare the major church groups, they don't even agree on justification, let alone baptism or any other major topic. So who is right? The Holy Spirit is supposedly guiding every one of these Churches? How do you know that YOU are right?

Question: What is the pillar and foundation of truth?

Last edited by GoodToBeHome; 09-04-2011 at 09:10 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2011, 05:57 AM
 
Location: USA
23 posts, read 11,910 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Are you suggesting that most Catholics worship their church instead of their God? I doubt they would agree. and I also, as a non-Catholic, don't agree with such an assertion. I believe you have a Protestant bias.

What does it mean to be a Protestant Christian? It means a Christian who is against the Catholic Church. Are you a Protestant Christian, or a non-denominational Christian?

Saying such a thing about other denominations of Christianity is like saying that most Protestant denominations worship their own interpretations of scripture.
One should have a biblical bias. And yes, catholics put their church and tradition above or on equal footing with scripture. Where as the bible puts itself as sole authority for any christian, 2 Timothy 3:16. Many of the catholic beliefs contradict the bible. But then, there are some protestant groups who contradict the bible also. I believe that Lutheranism does this for instance with regard to salvation and baptism , or atleast Martin Luther did. I also find a heavy mix of paganism in catholicism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2011, 01:08 PM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 54,035 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post

Seriously sis, that is your take on it. The RCC is a perfect example of how the scribes could get away with adding to the laws of Moses without an uprising. And as to Jesus never mentioning it just read the link I gave, Jesus did mention it and contradicted it, showing what the lying pen of the scribes added to the laws of Moses.

The Catholic Church gave us the bible. Without it you would have nothing to pick and choose from. And you have no way of knowing if any of these lies by the scribes were incorporated into the Scriptures we have today anyway. I did read your link and I didn't see anything about Jesus saying anything was added to the law of Moses either. Post the verse from the NT for me.




Just read the link sis and you will see what He said about those things.






Common sis, think for yourself. Do you really think God was only speaking of one book out of all the other books that were written?

And does it matter if the canon was not fixed at the time of Justin martyr's writing? Paul said all scripture is inspired of God, obviously Justin was taking about the deleting of scripture that was inspired of God as he said they deleted scripture that showed the Messiah (which is prophesy concerning the Messiah) was Jesus Christ.

Case in point, nothing in the bible states that He would be a Nazarene, yet Mathew says that there was a prophesy concerning Christ that He would be. Obviously the scribes deleted that prophesy as it clearly pointed to Christ being the Messiah.

The bottom line is that all Scripture we have today is inspired. There were lots of "scriptures" floating around and this is why the Church had to choose the canon in order to define which are authentic. This is just one function where the Church exercised its power to bind and loose.




Every denomination can boast that claim sis, and they do. Does that make them the true church? Hardly.

Right. They were not given the authority to bind and loose and this is why they are divided.

Unity is only found in Christ, it is not found in any division of the church and as I have pointed out a couple of time the catholic church was divided, one side becoming the RCC and the other side becoming eastern orthodox.

Indeed, unity is found only in Christ and the Church he founded. Jesus isn't a polygamist; He only has ONE bride, and anyone can leave His Church but until Jesus comes for her she will always remain one with Him.

What supremacy does the RCC have over the eastern orthodox in Christ, they both had there beginning in the catholic church.

Because the Catholic Church has to keys of St. Peter. It was this Church that was first called Catholic. Even so, the Orthodox Church is still apostolic and like John Paul ll said our respective churches are like two lungs:

Speeches of Pope John Paul II and Metropolitan John of Pergamon




Nonsense, how did anyone know Christ before any scripture was written. The Holy Spirit and him alone teaches of Christ, scripture itself proclaims this, yet you do not believe it. Talk about irony

The Holy Spirit and Him alone DOES teach about Christ THROUGH THE CHURCH. why else would the Church be sent to "teach", brother? Jesus said that Holy Spirit would be sent to the apostles to call to rememrance everything "he said to them."






While what do you think the wheat and tares are sis, they ain't people they are the thoughts that people put into action.

Jesus told us: the tares are the children of the wicked one.



Any evil, the OT speaks of God doing evil, the NT says God has nothing to do with evil.





And the vail is still there sis. If you still see a God of good and evil you are shrouded in the vail of ignorance. Christ does away with this vail but few listen to Him.






I take it that is a serious question. Are you well read in scripture? If so you cannot fail to see two different pictures of the Father. The OT's picture of the Father was one of a Father who does evil and good, the NT's picture of the Father is one of a Father that cannot do evil, but does good.

God cannot do evil, period, brother. I read your post on that link you provided where you say God's killing of men, women and children would be considered evil. So do you eliminate every book from the bible that contains these actions of God you consider evil?

Post your canon for me, pneuma.




Buy our spirit bearing witness with the spirit of God





Hardly, you went from one teacher of men to another






No I don't reject the teaching of Christ apostles, the pope is not one of Christ apostles.

I know. The pope is a bishop. And Scripture says that Christ's Church will have them. Does your church have bishops?

Again I will state that when one teaches it is so that those being taught will come to the same maturity in Christ as the one who is teaching, this is something no pope will ever do.

Again, brother, I've been on both sides where you haven't. So I have to say that you aren't qualified to makes this judgment.



Nonsense, are you going to believe the scriptures or the saying of men. The scriptures tell us that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Therefore all we need is the Holy Spirit.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit would be sent to His apostles so that they could teach truth, and He was. This is why the Church is still in existence today after 2000 years. If it sounds miraculous it's because it is - Thanks to the Holy Spirit. This is why we can trust the Church Jesus built.


Sorry, brother, I only had time to hit the high spots.



Peace and blessings,


augusta
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top