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Old 08-14-2011, 02:22 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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I have run into many posts where people who appear to consider themselves Catholic talk about Protestants as the "Christians".

They say things like "I used to go to a Christian school, but then I went to a Catholic school and the education was much better".

Don't Catholic Christians understand that they belief in Jesus as the devine son of God and part of the trinity?

Don't Catholic Christians know that Catholicism is the largest Christian denomination world-wide?

Maybe it's just an uneducated American misconception among American Catholics themselves... or perhaps Catholics no longer enjoy the lable "Christian" which means "Annointed" and is not a very humbling title...

can we please disscuss this, especially if you ARE Catholic. (also, I was wondering if people know that the major denominations of Christianity are Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Protestantism(which has many denominations itself))
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:12 AM
 
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The ideas and doctrines of the Catholic Church and the Protestants different Church types are Christian, and Jesus Will accept the people who believe Jesus from these Churches , but if people from these churches water down Jesus obedience and put up their church as their God , they can come up in lack of the Holy Spirit ... But their doctrines are there and Jesus Spirit will help though who will believe......
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hljc View Post
The ideas and doctrines of the Catholic Church and the Protestants different Church types are Christian, and Jesus Will accept the people who believe Jesus from these Churches , but if people from these churches water down Jesus obedience and put up their church as their God , they can come up in lack of the Holy Spirit ... But their doctrines are there and Jesus Spirit will help though who will believe......
It takes a closer examination of the catholic Jesus versus what The Bible says about Jesus particularly when it comes to justification, redemption, and eternal salvation requirements. The Bible is very emphatic that Christs atonement on the cross was TOTALLY sufficient to pay for all of mankinds sins in full and at THAT very moment when Christ declared the sin debt was finished at which point he gave up his Spirit and physically died. Because this act was a free undeserved grace-gift from God, all one can do is simply recieve it by Faith as a lavished gift that is indeed totally sufficient by applying the merits of Christ (alone) to ones sin account. Sadly, Catholics are taught that Christ only 'opened the door' for thier salvation in which they must complete thru infusing what Christ did with their own meritorious works, deeds, almsgiving, living a good catholic life partaking in its many religiousities , additionally trusting in other external things, and even applying other deceased Catholics good works to their own 'salvation' account as specifically indicated in Catechism #1477 for those who wish to look it up . Further, such added doctrines such as Purgatory exist to expiate/remedy any 'left over' sins that the faithful Catholic dies with -- therefore, both of these examples serve to indicate that Christs atonement was not totally sufficient and effacacious to save a person from ALL their sins .

So, its imperative to look beyond the surface of an individual/group declaring they believe / trust in Jesus etc... and see WHAT they are truly trusting in (or not) with regard to The Saviour . And of course, herein lies one of the biggest divisions between Roman Catholicism and the total authority of Gods Word which Protestants essentially reinstated via the Protestant Reformation.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 89,090 times
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
It takes a closer examination of the catholic Jesus versus what The Bible says about Jesus particularly when it comes to justification, redemption, and eternal salvation requirements. The Bible is very emphatic that Christs atonement on the cross was TOTALLY sufficient to pay for all of mankinds sins in full and at THAT very moment when Christ declared the sin debt was finished at which point he gave up his Spirit and physically died. Because this act was a free undeserved grace-gift from God, all one can do is simply recieve it by Faith as a lavished gift that is indeed totally sufficient by applying the merits of Christ (alone) to ones sin account. Sadly, Catholics are taught that Christ only 'opened the door' for thier salvation in which they must complete thru infusing what Christ did with their own meritorious works, deeds, almsgiving, living a good catholic life partaking in its many religiousities , additionally trusting in other external things, and even applying other deceased Catholics good works to their own 'salvation' account as specifically indicated in Catechism #1477 for those who wish to look it up . Further, such added doctrines such as Purgatory exist to expiate/remedy any 'left over' sins that the faithful Catholic dies with -- therefore, both of these examples serve to indicate that Christs atonement was not totally sufficient and effacacious to save a person from ALL their sins .

So, its imperative to look beyond the surface of an individual/group declaring they believe / trust in Jesus etc... and see WHAT they are truly trusting in (or not) with regard to The Saviour . And of course, herein lies one of the biggest divisions between Roman Catholicism and the total authority of Gods Word which Protestants essentially reinstated via the Protestant Reformation.
NO. You need to start with more elementary Catholic doctrine. I suggest the most fitting place would be Jesus building his Church on Peter the rock.

God bless,

Augusta
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Augusta33 View Post
NO. You need to start with more elementary Catholic doctrine. I suggest the most fitting place would be Jesus building his Church on Peter the rock.

God bless,

Augusta
Im afraid that this catholic doctrine is also in grave error ; Christ himself is still THE Leader of the Christian Church today and has been thruout time. Its interesting to note that when one studies the New Testament that none of the other Disciples treated Peter as 'a Pope' or any higher standing than they themselves ; in fact we read that Paul got in 'Pope Peters' face and strongly rebuked him (most likely in the company of the other Disciples) ... not exactly what you do to the first 'Christ-ordained Pope' . Peter was seen as just one of the Boys by everyone around . In light of how the RCC clearly places its Majesteriom and madeup Traditions above inspired Scripture in reality...there is no way that our Saviour would have his Word to mankind compromised as it is in Roman Catholic circles. Pope JP2's public Marion Prayers to the masses is solid proof positive that The BIble is grossly compromised in favor of elevating Mary to the place of Godhood by giving her powers which only God himself is capable of doing.

I dont want to get into a mud slinging contest with you, but, I have to urge you to trust in Christs finished atoning work on Calvary plus no other forms of self-practiced Religion attempts , otherwise the free gift of Christ is completely nullified --- its all based on what Christ has done and not on what we can do . If you choose to do this, it will mean not abiding in the many madeup Doctrines of the RCC which undermine Scripture including how to be saved by a free undeserved gift which cannot be earned. Doing personal works is a By-Product of having been saved and must not be applied toward helping Christ for your own salvation. I realize you most likely have very fond memories of your catholic upbringing and trusted in what the Nuns and other Leaders taught you..but anything that compromises/nullifies the Bible or diminishes the finished work of Christ for salvation, must be shunned thereby giving Christ his rightful place of authority . I hope you will seriously consider doing this because it is very necessary.

Regards.
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:27 AM
 
Location: NC
141 posts, read 89,090 times
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Im afraid that this catholic doctrine is also in grave error ; Christ himself is still THE Leader of the Christian Church today and has been thruout time. Its interesting to note that when one studies the New Testament that none of the other Disciples treated Peter as 'a Pope' or any higher standing than they themselves ; in fact we read that Paul got in 'Pope Peters' face and strongly rebuked him (most likely in the company of the other Disciples) ... not exactly what you do to the first 'Christ-ordained Pope' . Peter was seen as just one of the Boys by everyone around . In light of how the RCC clearly places its Majesteriom and madeup Traditions above inspired Scripture in reality...there is no way that our Saviour would have his Word to mankind compromised as it is in Roman Catholic circles. Pope JP2's public Marion Prayers to the masses is solid proof positive that The BIble is grossly compromised in favor of elevating Mary to the place of Godhood by giving her powers which only God himself is capable of doing.

I dont want to get into a mud slinging contest with you, but, I have to urge you to trust in Christs finished atoning work on Calvary plus no other forms of self-practiced Religion attempts , otherwise the free gift of Christ is completely nullified --- its all based on what Christ has done and not on what we can do . If you choose to do this, it will mean not abiding in the many madeup Doctrines of the RCC which undermine Scripture including how to be saved by a free undeserved gift which cannot be earned. Doing personal works is a By-Product of having been saved and must not be applied toward helping Christ for your own salvation. I realize you most likely have very fond memories of your catholic upbringing and trusted in what the Nuns and other Leaders taught you..but anything that compromises/nullifies the Bible or diminishes the finished work of Christ for salvation, must be shunned thereby giving Christ his rightful place of authority . I hope you will seriously consider doing this because it is very necessary.

Regards.

Well if Peter was just one of the boys like the other apostles then why is Paul making such a huge scene about calling him down in the first place?

I always snicker when I read this because of why he called him down - he "ate" with the Jews. I think Paul was having a bad hair day here or something, especially considering that Paul actually had Timothy circumcised. lol Anyhow, note that Paul only called him down for using poor judgment (which our popes, being human, do being they're sinners like all of us) and he never called him down for teaching error (which our popes do not do).

Jesus said "he who is greatest among you shall be your servant". This is one of the official titles of the pope - The Servant of the Servants of God.

Also note how Peter is almost always mentioned first among the apostles. Here are just a few examples in Acts alone: 1:15, 2:37 & 38.
Mark 16:7 is a good example of Peter being singled out by an angel. It goes on and on.


007.5, I think both of us are adults here and can have a discussion without resorting to mudslinging. So let's just stay on topic (Peter) and have an orderly one and then we can move on to another subject if you like.

Btw, I wasn't raised Catholic, I was actually anti-catholic. My parents were members of the United Methodist church but nominal Christians at best. I asked to be baptized at 13. I realized later in life that the divisions in denominationalism was not what Jesus intended and was a symptom of a serious sickness in Christendom. After examining other religions I knew that the Jesus is truth and His truth was out there and existed in the form of a Church, and I had to find it. So I invested the rest of my life to prayer, studying Scripture and all the denominations. I was determined to be objective and get my info straight from the horses' mouths (I even studied with the JWs because they claimed to be the true church). Then after living as a nondenominational fundamentalist it happened: The Lord opened my eyes and His truth was revealed. And it was the bible itself that led me straight to the Catholic Church.


I'll be back and post more on Peter later. Have a good day.

God bless,

august:

Last edited by Augusta33; 08-15-2011 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:22 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Are you suggesting that most Catholics worship their church instead of their God? I doubt they would agree. and I also, as a non-Catholic, don't agree with such an assertion. I believe you have a Protestant bias.

What does it mean to be a Protestant Christian? It means a Christian who is against the Catholic Church. Are you a Protestant Christian, or a non-denominational Christian?

Saying such a thing about other denominations of Christianity is like saying that most Protestant denominations worship their own interpretations of scripture.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Are you suggesting that most Catholics worship their church instead of their God? I doubt they would agree. and I also, as a non-Catholic, don't agree with such an assertion. I believe you have a Protestant bias.

What does it mean to be a Protestant Christian? It means a Christian who is against the Catholic Church. Are you a Protestant Christian, or a non-denominational Christian?

Saying such a thing about other denominations of Christianity is like saying that most Protestant denominations worship their own interpretations of scripture.
Maybe that's what it meant originally, but nowadays the term is used as a catch-all to mean most non-Catholic Christian denominations. I'm an Episcopalian, but that doesn't mean I am against the Catholic Church. It's just the denomination whose traditions I identify with because I found a home in a particular church of that denomination.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
2,756 posts, read 4,792,518 times
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Are you suggesting that most Catholics worship their church instead of their God? I doubt they would agree. and I also, as a non-Catholic, don't agree with such an assertion. I believe you have a Protestant bias.

What does it mean to be a Protestant Christian? It means a Christian who is against the Catholic Church. Are you a Protestant Christian, or a non-denominational Christian?

Saying such a thing about other denominations of Christianity is like saying that most Protestant denominations worship their own interpretations of scripture.
Hard to believe you're not a Catholic with that answer.

I didn't for a second get the feeling the OP had a Protestant bias.
As far as us Protestants being against the Catholic Church: well, not most of us. We just perhaps feel more comfortable with, and believe more in the dogma of, our respective protestant denominations.
You must remember that the father of the Protestant movement, Martin Luther, was a German Catholic monk, fer chrissakes. (pun intended.). He loved his church but when he nailed his 95 Theses on the Church Door in Wittenburg he was simply trying to bring to light the misuse of power many Catholic priests were committing, such as SELLING salvation for money!

Also, it would do you well to recall that the Catholic Church wanted to kill Luther for this, if he did not recant. Indeed, had Luther not had a couple freinds in high places back in Germany, he in all probability would have been put to death.
Peace.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
True followers of Christ have all the power of heaven behind them being one with Christ , in Christ , and being his representatives to a lost world. True Followers get their marching orders from Christ and need not go thru an Intermediary like a Pope or a Priest to link us . Read Ephesians chapter 2 for clarity on what true Believers have in Christ and who they ARE in Christ.

Jesus' prayer in John 17 is to do with true Followers of Christ , that they would remain in one accord with him. The Bible commands us to seperate ourselves (divide ourselves from) apostate teaching which demotes Christ , his finished work on the cross , and diminishes the authority of scripture by adding external things to it . Finally, given Christs omniscience to look into the future, he would have never selected a Papal process you propose which has Popes being some of the worse mass murderers in history, adultery commiters, even having 2 popes at the same time , and Popes and Councils proclaiming 'anathema' (eternal damnation) against such clear Bible teaching as found in Eph. 2:8 and 9 which says faith alone for salvation in addition to dozens more anathemas against scriptural teaching. And i beg you to please dont tell me that the Papalcy is all about 'the Office' rather than the Individual Popes who have given a black eye to real Christianity thruout the centuries via added legalisms and power and control to the masses.

Im glad Christ is still the ONLY Advocate we need because he never relinquished his authority , and when that thick Temple curtain was ripped from top to bottom upon his death , we are now able to go directly to God without the interference and restriction of 'a Pope' or 'Priest' . Until you reach this place yourself, you will never be able to experience what Christ has done for you and the real freedom that he offers in himself. Its available if you want it , but, its going to mean turning from religion and practicing madeup traditions .... and embracing Christ in totality (including giving HIM the total authoirty in your life instead of subjecting yourself to another Human Being dressed in the finest of silk garb. Peace.
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Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
Also, it would do you well to recall that the Catholic Church wanted to kill Luther for this, if he did not recant. Indeed, had Luther not had a couple freinds in high places back in Germany, he in all probability would have been put to death.
Peace.
The RCC hierarchy is every bit as corrupt and evil an institution as the Mafia. Christ specifically wanted to ban any hierarchy among His followers because of the corrupting influence of power and control. True to the bent of human arrogance and egotism . . . they interpreted His example and caveat about wanting to be first not as a prohibition of hierarchy . . . but as the basis for the ritual to install the Pope!!! Individual Catholics (as with the innocent and sincere members of most religions) are not responsible for this evil institution . . . they are just victims of it.
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