a question for Catholics (Revelation, preach, disciples, convert)

[ancient warrior]

[quote=Augusta33;20536504]

Originally Posted by ancient warrior

RESPONSE:

Actually, this was "said" by one of the several writers of the Gospel of John written between 96 and 106 AD, and then attributed to Jesus.

Ancient, you don't believe the New Testament? What do you have believe and have faith in if not the source of Christ's words?

Blessings,

augusta

RESPONSE:

I'm told that Cinderella says that the whole Cinderella story is true. Is that grounds for believing that it must be. Same thing.

Jesus died about 30 AD. The first gospel was written in 70 AD. Were written records maintained, or were the gospels based on a legend?

A Concise History of the Catholic Church, Fr. Thomas Bokenkotter, Image Books, NY , 1990, page 8-9

“The gospels were not meant to be a historical or biographical account of Jesus. They were written to convert unbelievers to faith in Jesus as the Messiah of God, risen and living now in his church and coming again to judge all men. Their authors did not deliberately invent of falisfy facts about Jesus, but they were not primarily concerned about historical accuracy. They readily included material drawn from the Christian communities’ experience of the risen Jesus. Word, for instance, were put in the mouth of Jesus and stories wre told about him which, though not historical in the struict sense, nevertheless, in the minds of the evangelists, fittingly expressed the real meaning and intent of Jesus as faith had come to perceive him. For this reason, scholars have come to make the distinction between the Jesus of history and the Christ of faith.’

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Okiegirlfriend

I don't see anything about worshiping or adoring Mary in that prayer. All I see is asking Mary to guide us on our journey to Heaven. He is asking Mary to intercede for us to her Son, Jesus.

And you don't see anything wrong with that? Why would Mary have to intercede for us with Jesus?

[auntieannie68]

Originally Posted by pneuma

And you don't see anything wrong with that? Why would Mary have to intercede for us with Jesus?

sigh--what is your point?--go find a church that appeals to you--why waste energy on an anti-catholic? you either honor the mother of GOD or you don't--you either pay attention to biblical writings where Mary did intercede on another's behalf to Jesus and he responded or you don't

[ancient warrior]

Originally Posted by auntieannie68

sigh--what is your point?--go find a church that appeals to you--why waste energy on an anti-catholic? you either honor the mother of GOD or you don't--you either pay attention to biblical writings where Mary did intercede on another's behalf to Jesus and he responded or you don't

RESPONSE:

That was only where she asked Jesus to turn the water into wine to keep the party going, right?

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by auntieannie68

sigh--what is your point?--go find a church that appeals to you--why waste energy on an anti-catholic? you either honor the mother of GOD or you don't--you either pay attention to biblical writings where Mary did intercede on another's behalf to Jesus and he responded or you don't

And you either follow scripture or you don't.

Jesus taught us to pray our Father

Not our Mother.

Praying to anyone else but the Father is praying to an idol.

[007.5]

Originally Posted by auntieannie68

your intrepretations are so off base--why do you not form a church that meets all your needs and follows your interpretations and leave catholicism alone?-----there is another egocentric person in this thread that would support you

Id like to hear your interpretation of this JP2 Prayer TO Mary and how it is NOT heresy IN LIGHT OF HOLY INFALLABLE SCRIPTURE . Here it is again . Thanks :

"To you, Mother of human family and of the nations,
we confidently entrust the whole humanity,
with its hopes and fears.
Do not let it lack the light of true wisdom.
Guide its steps in the ways of peace.
Enable all to meet Christ,
the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Sustain us, O Virgin Mary, on our journey of faith
and obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation.
O clement, O loving, O sweet Mother of God
and our Mother, Mary! "-- John Paul II .

[007.5]

Originally Posted by Okiegirlfriend

I don't see anything about worshiping or adoring Mary in that prayer. All I see is asking Mary to guide us on our journey to Heaven. He is asking Mary to intercede for us to her Son, Jesus.

Youre kidding, right ?! You dont see JP2's worship and trust in Mary to do things which only God is capable of ????? .

Re: "To you, Mother of human family and of the nations,
we confidently entrust the whole humanity,
with its hopes and fears.
Do not let it lack the light of true wisdom.
Guide its steps in the ways of peace.
Enable all to meet Christ,
the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Sustain us, O Virgin Mary, on our journey of faith
and obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation.
O clement, O loving, O sweet Mother of God
and our Mother, Mary! "-- John Paul II .

[007.5]

Originally Posted by Okiegirlfriend

Sure would be nice to know where you are getting your information. It certainly isn't coming from the precepts of the RC Church.

I cant be any more direct and accurate, than posting the exact RCC source I did...which is the Vatican 2 Council (volume 1 on page 379) . I do realize that the average Catholic has to be a Philidelphia Lawyer in order to wade thru the laws, regulations, and legalism of the RCC ... when in reality following Christ is meant to be a very simple thing that even a child can understand and partake in.

[Okiegirlfriend]

007.5
I did not send you a direct message. That is not my style. I did however do some research about the book you recommended. Looking through it at Amazon, I did not see a nihil obstat or an imprimatur. That means that is not approved by the RCC as authentic. It is written by a renagade priest and they only print their opinions as they see fit, not facts about the RCC . Here is what I found out.

book by Thomas Bokenkotter - Catholic Answers Forums

We are warned to watch out for false prophets. Books written by renegade priests are the false prophets.

I will not be taken in by them.

Peace be with you.

[ancient warrior]

Originally Posted by Okiegirlfriend

Sure would be nice to know where you are getting your information. It certainly isn't coming from the precepts of the RC Church.

RESPONSE:

You're right. The precepts of the Church aren't infallible. But the dogmatic decrees of an ecumenical council are.

The quotation in question is from Lumen Gentium, para 25, Second Vatican Council. Here's a copy.

Lumen Gentium no. 25