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Old 08-24-2011, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,529,208 times
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Post Kolasis aionios will be administered to everyone who needs it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Totally agree. Christ's ultimate sacrifice is the only reason that I have salvation. However, He doesn't forgive unrepentent sin. If someone dies without believing that Christ died for his sin, he has no forgiveness. No where in the bible does it say there's a purgatory, or temporary hell. Hell is final, a place for Lucifer (Satan) and his angels and unbelievers. God is not Santa Claus-- He is a holy omnipotent Lord of the Universe. Just because His holiness doesn't appeal to modern sensibilities, we cannot re-create God to fit our wish list. He is what He is. Holy. Pure.
Kolasis aionios will be administered to everyone who needs it.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
Chapter Eleven
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:20 PM
 
12,654 posts, read 6,509,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Mike, I'm just trying to appeal to your sense of reason. When a person'(s') interpretation of scriptures consigns 99.999% of humanity to eternal flames and saves only 0.001% of them, especially when an equal body of scripture says just the opposite, then one has to look past the debate to the psyche of the person(s) making claims of such cosmic import. It's interesting to note that it's always someone who thinks they are already saved who makes these irrational, totally out of left field statements. Logos_x alludes to psychologists who have said that such individuals come close to possessing latent delusions of grandeur and a God-complex themselves--almost as if their subconscious is eagerly pushing them to step into God's shoes and pronounce judgment on sinners.

Here are a few questions that the ET'er should, with an open heart, not a stubborn one, ask him/herself:



Anyone who wants to confront literally a 1000 such intelligent albeit thorny questions and then read the ultimate "Good News" that gives satisfying solutions to the dilemmas posed by these questions and ET should peruse

“ETERNAL TORMENT”
Human reasoning cannot refute divine revelation. I have already told you that there is absolutely no Scripture which even hints that all men will be saved. Universalists take passages they don't understand, take them out of context and attempt to build an argument for Universalism. But with the typical Universalist disregard for truth, you reject what I said.


The many passages of Scripture that state clearly that the unbeliever will spend eternity in hell are known to you. You choose to ignore them or reject them. How brain dead is that!!!

You are beyond reasoning with. You have rejected the truth in favor of the lie, and it is highly unlikely that you will ever have the sense or find the honesty to accept what the Bible says.

It is pointless to continue with you. I have answered the 12 questions from your original post which you foolishly thought blew what you like to call 'eternal torment' out of the water. It is a given that the Universalist is not going to accept those answers. But they are given for whoever will listen.

There will be no further comments from me on this thread.
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,529,208 times
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Smile "It is pointless to continue with you" QUITE TRUE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Human reasoning cannot refute divine revelation. I have already told you that there is absolutely no Scripture which even hints that all men will be saved. Universalists take passages they don't understand, take them out of context and attempt to build an argument for Universalism. But with the typical Universalist disregard for truth, you reject what I said.

The many passages of Scripture that state clearly that the unbeliever will spend eternity in hell are known to you. You choose to ignore them or reject them. How brain dead is that!!!

You are beyond reasoning with. You have rejected the truth in favor of the lie, and it is highly unlikely that you will ever have the sense or find the honesty to accept what the Bible says.

It is pointless to continue with you. I have answered the 12 questions from your original post which you foolishly thought blew what you like to call 'eternal torment' out of the water. It is a given that the Universalist is not going to accept those answers. But they are given for whoever will listen.

There will be no further comments from me on this thread.
Of course there is no more point in spending more time on us because we are convinced (being aware of the arguments in support of both points of view) that our Greek scholars are more reliable than yours.

Students will decide for themselves.

My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve of
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
An Analytical Study of Words

Also see THE SCHOLAR’S CORNER FOR THE STUDY OF BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM at
Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.

But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what God is like.
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:31 PM
 
1,491 posts, read 898,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I wish I still remember (if it even still exists) the link to the debate that kingdomcome and I had over Annihilationism vs Universal Salvation.

Bob, if your around and remember, please post it.
Hi Paul... I'm sorry I don't have that link any more either... I wish I did. I also once wanted to go back and read the Hannity forum where we used to post and find the conversation that led me to see the truth. But that thread was wipe out at some point by some malicious attack.
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:37 PM
 
1,491 posts, read 898,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Wait, what about John 3:16? It says that whosoever BELIEVES in Him will be saved? How do you get around that in UR? Are you saying that those who don't believe in Christ will be saved as well? How?
Simple kiggy... we believe everyone will believe, everyone will bow their knee and confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God.

"And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Post Who shall eventually worship god?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Simple kiggy... we believe everyone will believe, everyone will bow their knee and confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God.

"And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"
WHO SHALL EVENTUALLY WORSHIP GOD?
Every creature Rev. 5:13
All flesh Isa. 66:23
All the ends of the world Psa. 22:27
All the kindreds of the nations Psa. 67:7
All the isles of the heathen Zep. 2:11
All the nations whom Thou hast made Psa. 86:9; Rev. 15:4
All the earth Psa. 66:4
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:47 PM
 
4,070 posts, read 2,170,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
WHO SHALL EVENTUALLY WORSHIP GOD?
Every creature Rev. 5:13
All flesh Isa. 66:23
All the ends of the world Psa. 22:27
All the kindreds of the nations Psa. 67:7
All the isles of the heathen Zep. 2:11
All the nations whom Thou hast made Psa. 86:9; Rev. 15:4
All the earth Psa. 66:4

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Old 08-24-2011, 07:52 PM
 
Location: NH/Englewood, FL
1,075 posts, read 595,113 times
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[quote=Thy Kingdom Come;20597130]Simple kiggy... we believe everyone will believe, everyone will bow their knee and confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God.


But not everyone is going to be saved. Even those committed to Satan will bow down to the Lord when He comes just because of the sheer magnitude of His glory. That doesn't mean they will have salvation.
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:56 PM
 
22,863 posts, read 10,747,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Kiggy, my understanding is that we all have chaff that needs to be, and will be, thrown into the fire, wouldn't you agree? God who is love is a consuming fire, and God will burn up the chaff. The old man (chaff) dies with Christ, the new man (spirit of Christ) rises in us. It's a promise for all, according to Paul, who says that as in Adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive, and each in their own order.
Amen!
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,529,208 times
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Post Reconciliation in the heavens

[quote=kiggy;20597317]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Simple kiggy... we believe everyone will believe, everyone will bow their knee and confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God.

But not everyone is going to be saved. Even those committed to Satan will bow down to the Lord when He comes just because of the sheer magnitude of His glory. That doesn't mean they will have salvation.
Even Satan is going to be saved (Col. 1:20)

Here is a snippet from
RECONCILIATION IN THE HEAVENS by J. Preston Eby

"The highest glories of the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, are revealed to us in Paul's epistle to the Colossians. In the beginning He was "...the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: for by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him and for Him: and He is before all things, and by Him all things consist" (Col. 1:15-17).

Can the UNIVERSALITY of Christ's creation be more forcibly expressed? In every case the word ALL is used WITHOUT ANY LIMITATION whatever. The heavens and the earth with all that is in them, visible and invisible, include ALL creation."

The verses that follow continue to express the UNIVERSALITY of Christ's glories in the present and the future. "And He is the Head of the body, the Church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell; and, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in the heavens." The supremacy of God's Son depends on the UNIVERSALITY or TOTALITY of His many honors. How extraordinary is the emphasis laid on this vital fact in this short passage! Within the compass of five verses we read no less than eight times that the glory given the Christ is all-inclusive and all-pervading. He is the firstborn of EVERY creature. ALL is created by and in Him, and ALL is created through and for Him. He is before ALL. ALL is bound together by Him. In ALL He is becoming first, having preeminence. ALL fullness, or the fullness of ALL, dwells in Him. He reconciles ALL through the blood of His cross. And on two occasions this is amplified and defined as ALL that is IN THE HEAVENS and ALL that is ON THE EARTH. It is said to include both visible and invisible. What more could be said to impress us with the universal scope of the Son's activities?

I long intently for that day when even the devil himself shall put away his pitchfork, hang up his horns, and come humbly and brokenly to the Father's house! Does that startle you? How else could it be in that glad day when the Christ has finally RECONCILED ALL THINGS IN THE HEAVENS AND IN EARTH, including all the PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS OF THE HEAVENLY SPHERE!

RECONCILIATION IN THE HEAVENS
Reconciliation in the Heavens

Last edited by rodgertutt; 08-24-2011 at 08:15 PM..
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