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I think you are either evading the question, or perhaps misunderstanding the simplicity of the question.
The OP premise is:
"Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
It would seem that God let himself be overcome by evil and responded with evil. Or evil must be good. God created the first division in his once united kingdom. "
You are saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that because hell is so torturously bad it is good for showing one to go another path. The problem with that, IMO, is that the verse states to overcome evil with good. To me that would be something like an evil person gets loved to death...so to speak. Not burned eternally. By repaying evil (unbelief, sin) with hell (not good) isn't God doing the opposite of his own commands? Whether a person chooses that path or not, it is god who created the destination.
Peace Katjionj,
I guess the first issue is I am not Christian and do not accept the Genesis of the Bible as being the full truth. We do not believe Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden as a punishment. It was always intended they would dwell on earth and Eden was just a preparation place for them.
Now for a direct answer or the way I understand your question "Was the creation of Hell the replacing of evil with good?" the answer is no, but it is a moot question as it was created before Man was created. Hell did not replace anything. It was not created specifically because of anyone's sins.
It is a place, yes a place of punishment, but still just a place. We are all guaranteed eternal life. Once we are created, we will always be. Total justice requires that our freedom of choice is between that which are opposites of each other. Hell is the exact opposite of Heaven. It is clear and easy to see the difference. When we choose what end we desire, we know the difference between our choices. If we do not know it is our own choice to not seek answers while we are alive.
Lego I know most disagree with me on this but that statement is in total error.
Cause and effect
If one experience hell one can only understand hell.
One simply does not have to experience hate in order to understand love.
Hate produces hate
Love produces love
Cause and effect
Pneuma - if what you say above is true, then all the suffering of humanity is completely unnessessary and in vain. To believe that would be a heavy burden. Christ's burden is not heavy. As humans, we cannot know anything without contrast -- i.e. darkness/light, joy/sorrow, fear/peace, etc... Was it not God's plan and intention to allow us to be subjected to death in all it's painful manifestations?
Lego I know most disagree with me on this but that statement is in total error.
Cause and effect
If one experience hell one can only understand hell.
One simply does not have to experience hate in order to understand love.
Hate produces hate
Love produces love
Cause and effect
Hi pneuma,
Yes we disagree but I think we are not understanding each other well.
What do you mean by 'hell' here exactly? I was referring metaphorically to this world we live in as 'hell'. Of course there is both good and bad in this world, but certainly alot more bad than we would like.
However without any bad things happening, we would not have comprehension or understanding of what 'good' even means. We would be ignorant.
Since this is in the Christian forum, please be aware my answer may not agree with the majority here.
Speaking as a Muslim, Hell is neither good nor evil. It simply is. It was a needed part of creation to offer alternative choices if we are to have true free will. while Hell is a nasty, horrible place and not very high on the list of places, where people would like to live. The option is there for those who choose it. Every body has the right to go to Hell if they so desire. We can show them the travel itineraries to other places and and offer nice housing packages for those who are willing to take the effort. but it all comes down to free choice.
Some people just want to enjoy the journey and don't worry about the destination, so be it, it is their choice and the road ends in Hell.
Nobody gets sent to Hell, there is no need for anybody to go there. People end up in hell as a result of their own free will choices.
Over all it is a good thing we have choices. In that sense Hell is good. it is exactly where some people choose to spend eternity.
And you know this, how?
Further, people have no full disclosure from your absentee God to make this wondrous choice. Are we to make it blindly?
Hard to pick door 1 or door 2 when you do not know what is behind either.
Rather unjust I would say.
Further, people have no full disclosure from your absentee God to make this wondrous choice. Are we to make it blindly?
Hard to pick door 1 or door 2 when you do not know what is behind either.
Rather unjust I would say.
Regards
DL
It is not right for me to turn this into a discussion about Islamic beliefs, in the Christian forum. I am copying your post and will address it in the "Questions about Islam, answered by Muslims" thread in the Philosophy/Religion forum.
It might help to see the context in which Romans 12:21 was taken from, starting with verse 9 -
9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality. 14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.c Do not be conceited. 17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”d says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”e 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Makes no difference to me.
What is your position on the O P?
Pneuma - if what you say above is true, then all the suffering of humanity is completely unnessessary and in vain. To believe that would be a heavy burden. Christ's burden is not heavy. As humans, we cannot know anything without contrast -- i.e. darkness/light, joy/sorrow, fear/peace, etc... Was it not God's plan and intention to allow us to be subjected to death in all it's painful manifestations?
Heartsong,
Pneuma has a very different base view here, namely that God does not know the future, and man is operating completely within his free will. Please correct me if I am wrong here pneuma.
Granted, this view is internally consistent, but IMHO makes God to be not God. So in these types of discussions it leads one to a completely different perspective/conclusion.
I have never heard it referred to as such. Think, what is the most nightmarish and unpleasant about earthly existence and there you have a little preview.
Pneuma - if what you say above is true, then all the suffering of humanity is completely unnessessary and in vain. To believe that would be a heavy burden. Christ's burden is not heavy. As humans, we cannot know anything without contrast -- i.e. darkness/light, joy/sorrow, fear/peace, etc... Was it not God's plan and intention to allow us to be subjected to death in all it's painful manifestations?
Christ burden is light sis, death and all that follows is not part of Christ's burden.
Again it is cause and effect sis
If one experience darkness that is all they produce.
Experiencing darkness does not make us understand light
Experiencing light make us understand light.
Same goes for each of your other points.
And I do not believe it was Gods plan that man sin and fall into all this darkness
I guess the first issue is I am not Christian and do not accept the Genesis of the Bible as being the full truth. We do not believe Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden as a punishment. It was always intended they would dwell on earth and Eden was just a preparation place for them.
Now for a direct answer or the way I understand your question "Was the creation of Hell the replacing of evil with good?" the answer is no, but it is a moot question as it was created before Man was created. Hell did not replace anything. It was not created specifically because of anyone's sins.
It is a place, yes a place of punishment, but still just a place. We are all guaranteed eternal life. Once we are created, we will always be. Total justice requires that our freedom of choice is between that which are opposites of each other. Hell is the exact opposite of Heaven.
Do you mean that it is the females in hell that have all the male virgins?
Regards
DL
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