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If I've went there and said you are wrong I apologize. I have worried about things like that and it would be rude to do that.
A thing can be a "right" and still be a bad idea. In many cases when I go to the atheist section it's probably a bad idea. If it's offended any of you I'll stop doing it. I may stop doing it regardless.
I have no problem with you or anyone else sharing your opinion in the atheist forum..Even the fact that you think me wrong means little to me....It is after all just your opinion, and we all have them.....Methinks perhaps if you are so easily offended by remarks that are not even directed at you, and are certainly not personal, maybe you need a thicker skin.
The topic here is "how to explain neanderthals" not nephilim, and I prefer to debate with facts rather than just my personal opinions since in this area I am a layman. I have asked the poster you are defending to back up his statements regarding the origin of neanderthals, and humans, and will have to wait and to see what comes of my request.
Sounds like you need to do some research, Lets see, Grant Jeffrey, Jack Van Impe, Ken Hamm, just to name a few. The older you get the larger you skull gets. Please look at the real science and not the only what they want you to believe.
Real science? These three you mention are a long way from being scientists.
In other words, facts be damned, I have my fantasy and no facts will change that?
I'm going to go sip a nice stout ale, watch Craig Ferguson and pretend that I'm not surrounded by people that are so dang proud of their willful ignorance.
What facts? The facts that you have been spoon fed. The men I listed present facts but many like yourself wish to attack their findings because they go against what you believe.
Nephilem? What the heck are you talking about...Neanderthals were real, and actually existed. Nephilem, are equivalent to other imaginary beings like, say leprechauns.
Neanderthal males stood about 165–168 cm (65–66 in), and were heavily built with robust bone structure. They were much stronger than Homo sapiens, having particularly strong arms and hands. Females stood about 152–156 cm (60–61 in) tall, whereas Nephilem were mythical giants.
As for your statement about faith, no evidence contrary to what you have been TAUGHT to believe will ever change your mind, and yet you call US close minded...You have smashed my irony meter again.
Actually I used to believe as many of you do until things were explained a little better.
"The Neanderthal mtDNA sequences were substantially different from modern human mtDNA (Krings et al. 1997, 1999). Researchers compared the Neanderthal to modern human and chimpanzee sequences. Most human sequences differ from each other by on average 8.0 substitutions, while the human and chimpanzee sequences differ by about 55.0 substitutions. The Neanderthal and modern human sequences differed by approximately 27.2 substitutions. Using this mtDNA information, the last common ancestor of Neanderthals and modern humans dates to approximately 550,000 to 690,000 years ago, which is about four times older than the modern human mtDNA pool. This is consistent with the idea that Neanderthals did not contribute substantially to modern human genome."
"Red-Headed Neanderthals
Ancient DNA has been used to show aspects of Neanderthal appearance. A fragment of the gene for the melanocortin 1 receptor (MRC1) was sequenced using DNA from two Neanderthal specimens from Spain and Italy, El Sidrón 1252 and Monte Lessini (Lalueza-Fox et al. 2007). Neanderthals had a mutation in this receptor gene that has not been found in modern humans. The mutation changes an amino acid, making the resulting protein less efficient. Modern humans have other MCR1 variants that are also less active resulting in red hair and pale skin. The less active Neanderthal mutation probably also resulted in red hair and pale skin, as in modern humans.
The specific MCR1 mutation in Neanderthals has not found in modern humans (or occurs extremely rarely in modern humans). This indicates that the two mutations for red hair and pale skin occurred independently and does not support the idea of gene flow between Neanderthals and modern humans. Pale skin may have been advantageous to Neanderthals living in Europe because of the ability to synthesize vitamin D. "
So what does that prove to you, other than different skull shapes? I did google it, and found nothing but a bunch of apologetic sites "confirming" this outlandish notion that humans evolved from chimps, and neanderthals from gorillas...For goodness sakes, if you are going to accept evolution, you can at least get it right. All members of the Ape family, this includes humans evolved from a common ancestor.
Quote:
"The Neanderthal mtDNA sequences were substantially different from modern human mtDNA (Krings et al. 1997, 1999). Researchers compared the Neanderthal to modern human and chimpanzee sequences. Most human sequences differ from each other by on average 8.0 substitutions, while the human and chimpanzee sequences differ by about 55.0 substitutions. The Neanderthal and modern human sequences differed by approximately 27.2 substitutions. Using this mtDNA information, the last common ancestor of Neanderthals and modern humans dates to approximately 550,000 to 690,000 years ago, which is about four times older than the modern human mtDNA pool. This is consistent with the idea that Neanderthals did not contribute substantially to modern human genome."
Good link to accurate information, although some is outdated, thank you....Nobody said their contribution was substantial...1 to 4% is not substancial, but it does indicate that we interbred.
From your link.
In 2010, Svante Pääbo’s lab announced a draft sequence of the Neanderthal genome (Green et al. 2010). This new study has produced evidence consistent with interbreeding between Neanderthals and anatomically modern Homo sapiens and points to aspects of the human genome that may have changed since the split between humans and Neanderthals.
Quote:
"Red-Headed Neanderthals
Ancient DNA has been used to show aspects of Neanderthal appearance. A fragment of the gene for the melanocortin 1 receptor (MRC1) was sequenced using DNA from two Neanderthal specimens from Spain and Italy, El Sidrón 1252 and Monte Lessini (Lalueza-Fox et al. 2007). Neanderthals had a mutation in this receptor gene that has not been found in modern humans. The mutation changes an amino acid, making the resulting protein less efficient. Modern humans have other MCR1 variants that are also less active resulting in red hair and pale skin. The less active Neanderthal mutation probably also resulted in red hair and pale skin, as in modern humans.
The specific MCR1 mutation in Neanderthals has not found in modern humans (or occurs extremely rarely in modern humans). This indicates that the two mutations for red hair and pale skin occurred independently and does not support the idea of gene flow between Neanderthals and modern humans. Pale skin may have been advantageous to Neanderthals living in Europe because of the ability to synthesize vitamin D. "
How's that? Study hard.
I said nothing about red hair or pale skin...I was actually hoping for a credible link to evidence that validates your claim that Neanderthals evolved from gorillas, and humans evolved from chimps.
What facts? The facts that you have been spoon fed. The men I listed present facts but many like yourself wish to attack their findings because they go against what you believe.
Verses fact-less ancient superstitions and tall tales................ It's not a belief, it is knowledge, knowledge based on actual evidence.
Your evidence, a book of ancient superstitions founded on fear overflowing with irrational absurdities, and some really tall tales.
And if you would care to look around I'm sure you will be disappointed to find that while there are many that believe in god, a great many also completely dismiss the nonsense of your position, and have no problem with the fact the earth is billions of years old and life has been here a long time. Intelligent people look at the evidence, and learn vs. sticking fingers in ears, squeezing eyes shut and wailing "does not.... does not..... does not" the last refuge of practitioners of will ignorance.
And I picked talking birds. How serious do you think I am?
Well, technically they were captioned birds, although they may have been talking, I don't know since I keep the sound off on my computer. Whatever, they had very serious expressions on their beaks, leading me to the conclusion that your umbrage was, indeed, geniuine.
I was prepared for your next retort to indignantly point out that Gingerism is in itself a kind of racism, to which I was going to respond that it's ok, because I have some very good friends who are Gingers and they never seem to mind when I make jokes at their expense, and besides, it's all good since I have an advanced degree in Ginger Studies at USP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
Anyway the genetic proof just isn't there (only the hint)
I don't know Chango, I think there is more than a "hint" that Neanderthals had pale hair, eyes, and skin. See excerpts and links from two articles below. There are a lot more if you want to do the Googling.
What is less conclusive is that Neanderthal DNA governing hair, eyes, and skin is the same as the DNA that causes me to have light hair, eyes, and skin. Maybe that is the "hint" you were referring to?
While studying Neandertal DNA samples, Lalueza-Fox's team found an unknown mutation in a key gene called MC1R. Also present in modern humans, the gene regulates a protein that guides the production of melanin, which pigments hair and skin and protects from UV rays. Variations in this gene's sequence limit melanin production in people with pale skin and red hair, although the particular mutation found by the researchers is not known to occur in modern humans.
Oxford University scientists think the 'ginger gene', which is responsible for red hair, fair skin and freckles, could be up to 100,000 years old. They say their discovery points to the gene having originated in Neanderthal man, who lived in Europe for 260,000 years before the ancestors of modern man arrived from Africa about 40,000 years ago.
Actually I used to believe as many of you do until things were explained a little better.
I was raised a Christian and found that it was based mostly on myth and superstition...Believe me I tried to believe, but was unable to close my mind to reason...Some things are just not possible.
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