The Final ET/UR Showdown (experience, heaven, mercy, devil)

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

The fact is people cant repent unless God gives them repentance, and neither can they believe unless God gives them faith to believe. It is all the work of God and he chooses when he will quicken us and renew us by his spirit so that we can comprehend spiritual things.

This is one thing we both totally agree on...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by kiggy

Where in the Bible does it say that hell is for teaching and correction? There is no biblical evidence of purgatory. There's plenty of evidence for hell as a place of eternal punishment. God is love, that is very true. But it's disengenuous to portray Him as some cosmic hippie skipping through the tulips. He is also holy and just. He has provided a way for man to have eternal life through Jesus Christ.

I would say that we must find the RC reasoning behind purgatory...Did they deduce it from Scripture or something else?...Seems like RC and UR are synonomous...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by ahigherway

Is the world out of God's control?

Are things not going according to Divine Will?

Is God's offer of salvation not able to get everyone "in?"

Romans 5 tells us plainly: God put all mankind into Adam, so that He could later put all mankind in Christ. It is ALL His plan, NONE our merit. He draws some now, others later.

"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their afflictions, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." James 1:27


Blessings,
brian

???

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by O-Ducky

I want people to know the truth. If they don't listen and obey Yahushua then they are rejecting eternal life and will never be born again. If they do this they will be sorry. You are itching thier ears.

You mean 'scratching' their itching ears, don't you?...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by O-Ducky

Satan wouldn't try and warn you. He wouldn't try and get you to see that you should in fact fear God. Oh yes, I'll tell you who you should fear:

Matthew 10:28

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in "hell".

Yahushua the Messiah says, yes, you should fear Yahua Almighty, who will destroy body and soul in... hell.

Now is the day of salvation.

So how can you tell God that He's wrong? wow

H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

Exo 3:14 And GodH430 saidH559 untoH413 Moses,H4872 I AMH1961 THATH834 I AM:H1961 and he said,H559 ThusH3541 shalt thou sayH559 unto the childrenH1121 of Israel,H3478 I AMH1961 hath sentH7971 me untoH413 you.

Exo 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

I am the first person to admit my errors. Can I get an amen from everyone?

Now about steering people away, that is a fault that we all have when we presuppose a doctrine into the scriptures. It is unavoidable for any of us to do, but we can test this doctrine and see what is approved. This one has already been tested here, I don't know how many times, and elsewhere. I was a staunch advocate against it, and in the end, I found ET to be the one that fell short. Neither of them line up, but UR more so that ET.

You were led astray...Sorry to hear that...

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

So, I guess the Roman Catholic Church is correct...There really is a Purgatory...Because that is what UR claims...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the difference, as I understand it, is that the RC church thinks that purgatory is only for baptised Catholics who have unconfessed and unrepented sins. They think everyone else will spend eternity suffering in "hell."

URs believe that "kolasis aionion" (age-during corrective chastisement) is for every one who needs it and sooner or later it will successfully correct the wrong attitudes of everyone.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
Chapter Eleven

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

ALL God's consequences are for correction . . . not punishment, period.The reverence for ancient ignorance is palpable in this post. It exhibits no knowledge of agape love or what it entails. It ignores that God IS Love . . . not feels it. It is so savagely ignorant about the absurdity and uselessness of eternally tormenting someone for "whatever" was committed during a finite lifetime. The raw primitive barbarity of such a mindset is chilling in this day and age. It reflects little to no spiritual development or maturity whatsoever. To equate the reality that "we will reap what we sow" . . . with the barbarity and savagery of eternal torment is mindblowing. There cannot have been ANY thought employed in accepting it.

Mat 10:28 AndG2532 fearG5399 notG3361 (G575) them which killG615 theG3588 body,G4983 butG1161 are notG3361 ableG1410 to killG615 theG3588 soul:G5590 butG1161 ratherG3123 fearG5399 him which is ableG1410 to destroyG622 bothG2532 soulG5590 andG2532 bodyG4983 inG1722 hell.G1067

G5399
φοβέω
phobeō
fob-eh'-o
From G5401; to frighten, that is, (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy to be in awe of, that is, revere: - be (+ sore) afraid, fear (exceedingly), reverence.

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

G4983
σῶμα
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

G1067
γέεννα
geenna
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

Are you implying that I care what you have? Look mate, you can keep spreading your false claims of "hell" or "eternal torment" but nowhere does this exist in scripture FIRST, and SECOND, the interpretation that you tend to weigh your "argument" against it has no historical or grammatical support.

None, not one inch. Try me. Give me one about "hell"....please!
And tell me you, or "your" scholars, didn't have an agenda?

Look man, I really don't care what you believe, but what I do care about, is people like you superimposing false doctrines into an ancient book (that needs ancient oriented revelations Jer 6:16) and then unload these falsities on your kids. Bad mojo man. Turn to the ancients for direction, and what they thought, how they wrote, how they lived, and what they saw as coming.

My kid will always understand their are consequences ...i.e. Judgements made on her bad decisions, but never will I ever tell her that God, who loves all the little children, and me, a wretch above all men, that He would ever burn someone eternally in a place of evil and disgust. Try me buddy.

You will fail at the onset. When you folks get your head out of the sand and humble yourself before the Lord, you will be ready, but until then....

I am sure you know about the Ancient Nohide Laws and the Mosaic Laws...That everyone is expected to follow the Nohide Laws in order to see the next life, however, The 613 Mosaic Laws are specifically for the children of Israel to follow in order to see the next life...This is the Jewish thought and belief...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by O-Ducky

Right. But the part that people who are calling themselves Christian these days are not getting is that He sets us free from sin - disobedience to God's Law.

1 John 2

3 And we can be sure that we know him if we obey his commandments. 4 If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth. 5 But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him. That is how we know we are living in him. 6 Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Jesus did.

1 John 3:8
But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.