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Why is it that those you believe are going to hell or that you believe are telling a false message are ridiculed and labeled by you as lesser than those who believe as you do?
According to your own belief, shouldn't you be witnessing to them and caring for them or are you like the Pharisees who wouldn't lift a finger?
Why aren't you sharing the true gospel if what PC and others are saying is wrong? Where's your counter argument?
This sort of post shows that you are not willing to even discuss another point of view. Close-minded and I suspect you fear diversion from what you've been taught will end with you joining those you label as going to hell. IMO of course.
Kat the counter argument is "Believe in Jesus or perish". Their whole argument is full of holes.
Let's take being born again for instance, the argument is unless you believe Jesus died for your sins on a cross, you cannot be born again,if you do believe you are born again. Jesus told Nicodemus before he died on a cross that you must be born again,most of them would gnash their teeth if you told them you could be born again prior to the cross. Another thing Jesus did not say believing in him is being born again. None of it is scriptual but they will not even consider this, because they fear God would be against them to question what they have been taught about the bible,and they want us to believe they free ???.
Finn is out there right now evangelising friends and family or praying 24/7 for them(wait a minute he's here telling me God is going to punish unbelievers), i know i would be if i truely with my whole heart like Finn does believe that my friends and family who do not believe are going to be eternally tortured.
If I was gullible, I would believe every word YOU say.
That is what gullible means.
If you don't know what 'gullible' means, maybe you should not use the word.
Would you like to know who no one wants what you have?
No Finn you are gullible just like i was for believing the doctrines and traditions of men.Thankfully the spirit of truth opened my eyes to see that i was. Whatsmore Finn i freely admit i do not know all things and that i'm not right on all things, thinking this way keeps me open.Thankfully by the grace of God iam not afraid to consider i could be believing wrong(how about you?), if i wasn't i would be along side you fighting those heretic universalists.
Finn all i will say to your question is i do not want what you have....period, i do note want to have a mentality that is forever dwelling upon sin,punishment and a belief in eternal hell.
No Finn you are gullible just like i was for believing the doctrines and traditions of men.Thankfully the spirit of truth opened my eyes to see that i was. Whatsmore Finn i freely admit i do not know all things and that i'm not right on all things, thinking this way keeps me open.Thankfully by the grace of God iam not afraid to consider i could be believing wrong(how about you?), if i wasn't i would be along side you fighting those heretic universalists.
Finn all i will say to your question is i do not want what you have....period, i do note want to have a mentality that is forever dwelling upon sin,punishment and a belief in eternal hell.
You are still calling me gullible. You will never stop calling be names, and that brings us to the reason why people do not want what you have. All you manage to display here is resentment, contempt and anger towards people who do not share your views, and very few people will subscribe to that mindset.
You are still calling me gullible. You will never stop calling be names, and that brings us to the reason why people do not want what you have. All you manage to display here is resentment, contempt and anger towards people who do not share your views, and very few people will subscribe to that mindset.
Have a blessed day.
Your current mindset? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black.
It is apparent that you have no counter argument and you are close minded to new thoughts about the religion you adhere to. To each his/her own. Right?
You are still calling me gullible. You will never stop calling be names, and that brings us to the reason why people do not want what you have. All you manage to display here is resentment, contempt and anger towards people who do not share your views, and very few people will subscribe to that mindset.
Have a blessed day.
If all that is how you define rejecting the evil doctrines you believe in, then i guess that is what i am.
As it ever occured to you why the west does not want fundamental christianity?, no doubt you will use the excuse they do not want to come to the light, the truth is they do not want what you have.
I drove past a church this morning which had a sign saying "To lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the crowd", do i need to say anymore.If only the person who thought that quote up realized we are that orchestra.
Jesus Christ not only faces the crowd, he see's the brokeness in the heart of the crowd and ministers healing to it, binding their wounds,and not condemning them to hell,because of their condition.
I have said many wonderful things on this long winded thread about how wonderful Jesus Christ is, you have not been in agreement with any of it. This says it all about your religion(just a belief about avoiding hell)
Kat the counter argument is "Believe in Jesus or perish". Their whole argument is full of holes.
Let's take being born again for instance, the argument is unless you believe Jesus died for your sins on a cross, you cannot be born again,if you do believe you are born again. Jesus told Nicodemus before he died on a cross that you must be born again,most of them would gnash their teeth if you told them you could be born again prior to the cross. Another thing Jesus did not say believing in him is being born again. None of it is scriptual but they will not even consider this, because they fear God would be against them to question what they have been taught about the bible,and they want us to believe they free ???.
Finn is out there right now evangelising friends and family or praying 24/7 for them(wait a minute he's here telling me God is going to punish unbelievers), i know i would be if i truely with my whole heart like Finn does believe that my friends and family who do not believe are going to be eternally tortured.
Pcamps, please read John 3. Many believed! Many many people believed and were baptized. I truly pray and hope God's Spirit will help you come to this Truth.
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.” 3In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.a” 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!” 5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spiritb gives birth to spirit.7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘Youc must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” 9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked. 10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.d14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.e 16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,f that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.g19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”
Jesus is telling us how to be born again. 5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spiritb gives birth to spirit.
The next part of John 3 talks about John the Baptist and his mission. John baptized with water, but like he says, one greater than me will be baptizing with the Holy Spirit.
To be born again, one needs to first, believe that Jesus went to the cross and bore OUR sins (in Bible time, it was to believe the that Savior HAS come, is amongst them and will bear their sins to death). Second, once we believe we are to be baptized - in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are now covered in his blood and clothed in his righteousness. His Holy Spirit has given us new birth - born again. Thus The Spirit gives birth to spirit as Jesus said in John 3:6.
God is now IN us, we now live our lives with God's spirit in us, helping us and comforting us through this life journey.
Do You believe in ET, UR or annihilation (or other) ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2
Not intended as a debate thread --- but if any want to debate here feel free
I believe in UR, and here's why.
God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of Hiswill” (Ephesians 1:11)
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand. I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him)
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen? Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be choice in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.
A snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race. Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.”
The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’
Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).
When you perceive the truth concerning the ages your Bible will become a new and more wonderful book than you knew you had.”
The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like, as Bright Hope pointed out, the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.
Pcamps, please read John 3. Many believed! Many many people believed and were baptized. I truly pray and hope God's Spirit will help you come to this Truth.
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.” 3In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.a” 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!” 5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spiritb gives birth to spirit.7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘Youc must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” 9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked. 10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.d14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.e 16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,f that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.g19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”
Jesus is telling us how to be born again. 5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spiritb gives birth to spirit.
The next part of John 3 talks about John the Baptist and his mission. John baptized with water, but like he says, one greater than me will be baptizing with the Holy Spirit.
To be born again, one needs to first, believe that Jesus went to the cross and bore OUR sins (in Bible time, it was to believe the that Savior HAS come, is amongst them and will bear their sins to death). Second, once we believe we are to be baptized - in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are now covered in his blood and clothed in his righteousness. His Holy Spirit has given us new birth - born again. Thus The Spirit gives birth to spirit as Jesus said in John 3:6.
God is now IN us, we now live our lives with God's spirit in us, helping us and comforting us through this life journey.
Saved33... I have no problem with what Jesus taught about being born again, i have a huge problem with how the system teaches it, it's a catchphrase of fundamental christianity. Nicodemus believed Jesus had come from God,do you believe he was born again ?.
Jesus said you "cannot see and enter into it",unless you are born again,in otherwords you need to be born again before to see and enter into it.and Jesus said to Nicodemus so it IS with everyone that is born of the Spirit.
Something had to happen in us before we could see and enter in, Jesus said in regards to seeing, flesh and blood as not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven, when the Father reveals who Jesus Christ IS to us, there is an effect,His word which is spirit becomes flesh and dwells within us.He gets all the glory and your confession won't be i found the Christ, it will be i have been found.
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Do You believe in ET, UR or annihilation (or other) ?
