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Old 09-30-2011, 08:57 AM
 
2,637 posts, read 1,043,839 times
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So many people on the forum believe that we are saved by faith alone. I have read all of the scriptures provided by so many of you, and I am not convinced. I would like to see from scripture, examples of people who were saved by faith alone. Could you provide some evidence?

I see a pattern throughout the Bible. God found favor with those who SHOWED THEIR FAITH in some way. In other words, their faith wasn't just a simple mental, in their heart, assent. It was accompanied by something they did. (Hebrews 11)

I am sure Abraham will be the one everyone posts about. I have looked closely at the story of Abraham, and I do not see that he was saved by faith alone. Here are my reasons:

Abram was righteous from the time we first meet him in Genesis 12:1. When God told Abram to do something, he did it. God told him to leave his homeland. He did it without question. He had no idea where he was going. He built altars to God and worshipped Him. He called on the name of the Lord. Abram SHOWED his faith.

I don't believe God sees Abram as an unbeliever or unforgiven sinner before we read Genesis 15:6 when Moses records, "Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it as righteousness."

The very first verse of Genesis 15 tells us that Abraham was righteous before being declared so in verse 6. “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward.”

God accounted Abraham righteous long before the events of this chapter. Otherwise, could God have said, "I am your shield, your very great reward" if it weren't true? Would God be the shield and great reward for an unforgiven sinner?

So please provide any examples you can find of people who were saved without showing their faith (doing something) in some way.

Thanks,

Katie
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:04 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,437,093 times
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I understand the nature of what you are saying, but it appears the scriptural picture is that of a process. The bible does talk about faith, it also talks of works, but it also talks about futile works will be burned up and yet you will be saved.

So maybe it would be good to look at what faith does and what works does, what is the balance and what is the significance of either.

What ARE works? Are works something that you get to define for someone else, or is it between you and God? What is faith and what does faith alone do if anything and how do you demonstrate that you have faith?
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:12 AM
 
2,637 posts, read 1,043,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I understand the nature of what you are saying, but it appears the scriptural picture is that of a process. The bible does talk about faith, it also talks of works, but it also talks about futile works will be burned up and yet you will be saved.

So maybe it would be good to look at what faith does and what works does, what is the balance and what is the significance of either.

What ARE works? Are works something that you get to define for someone else, or is it between you and God? What is faith and what does faith alone do if anything and how do you demonstrate that you have faith?
Hi Phazelwood, thank you for your response. I am looking for examples of people who were saved by faith alone. If salvation by faith alone is true, then surely there must be at least one example of it in the 66 books of the Bible? Every example I've found so far has people showing their faith to God by doing something.

Katie
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:23 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,437,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Hi Phazelwood, thank you for your response. I am looking for examples of people who were saved by faith alone. If salvation by faith alone is true, then surely there must be at least one example of it in the 66 books of the Bible? Every example I've found so far has people showing their faith to God by doing something.

Katie

Like I said, you have to understand what faith does as opposed to what works ARE.

Lk 18:41 Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight.
Lk 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:50 AM
 
2,637 posts, read 1,043,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Like I said, you have to understand what faith does as opposed to what works ARE.

Lk 18:41 Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight.
Lk 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
If you are saying there is a difference between what faith does and what works are, then I agree with you. The Bible distinguishes between working or obedient faith and works.

Thanks for the example you provided. The blind man showed his faith when he cried, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me." He continued crying this out. "Son of David, have mercy on me."

My NASV says, "Jesus said to him, Receive your sight. Your faith has made you well." Does yours say differently?

Yes Jesus healed many and raised Lazarus from the dead, but I am looking for examples of people who Jesus saved.

Katie
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:58 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,437,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
If you are saying there is a difference between what faith does and what works are, then I agree with you. The Bible distinguishes between working or obedient faith and works.

Thanks for the example you provided. The blind man showed his faith when he cried, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me." He continued crying this out. "Son of David, have mercy on me."

My NASV says, "Jesus said to him, Receive your sight. Your faith has made you well." Does yours say difdifferently?

Yes Jesus healed many and raised Lazarus from the dead, but I am looking for examples of people who Jesus saved.

Katie

The word in question is Sozo which primarily means "to save". People often ask about salvation and wonder what we are saved from. Sozo is used in many placed in different means.


That is why Faith saves, because it produces the work which ultimatly makes us whole.

Ultimatly, you cannot have faith without works, but faith alone initiates the whole process. True faith will work to that end.

The problem we often find is that people try to judge another person by their outward appearance and the observation of their physical deeds on earth and they have also missed what it is all about.
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9


  1. Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
  2. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
  3. Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
  4. Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
  5. Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
  6. Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
  7. Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
  8. Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
  9. Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
  10. Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
  11. Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."
  12. Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
11,642 posts, read 4,375,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
So many people on the forum believe that we are saved by faith alone. I have read all of the scriptures provided by so many of you, and I am not convinced. I would like to see from scripture, examples of people who were saved by faith alone. Could you provide some evidence?

I see a pattern throughout the Bible. God found favor with those who SHOWED THEIR FAITH in some way. In other words, their faith wasn't just a simple mental, in their heart, assent. It was accompanied by something they did. (Hebrews 11)

I am sure Abraham will be the one everyone posts about. I have looked closely at the story of Abraham, and I do not see that he was saved by faith alone. Here are my reasons:

Abram was righteous from the time we first meet him in Genesis 12:1. When God told Abram to do something, he did it. God told him to leave his homeland. He did it without question. He had no idea where he was going. He built altars to God and worshipped Him. He called on the name of the Lord. Abram SHOWED his faith.

I don't believe God sees Abram as an unbeliever or unforgiven sinner before we read Genesis 15:6 when Moses records, "Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it as righteousness."

The very first verse of Genesis 15 tells us that Abraham was righteous before being declared so in verse 6. “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward.”

God accounted Abraham righteous long before the events of this chapter. Otherwise, could God have said, "I am your shield, your very great reward" if it weren't true? Would God be the shield and great reward for an unforgiven sinner?

So please provide any examples you can find of people who were saved without showing their faith (doing something) in some way.

Thanks,

Katie
Finn_Jarber has posted a bunch of Scripture that states that salvation and righteousness is by faith and not by works.

You asked for examples of people who have been saved by faith alone.

ANSWER: All who were saved in the Bible were saved by faith alone because that's the only way to be saved.

You do not get to set the standard for who is and who is not saved.

Yes, God does show favor with those who show their faith - but when is showing favor the evidence of a person being saved?

Jesus would not pass this test. Look at his life and how it ended - He was unfairly cut down in the prime of his life. Does that seem like he is showing favor? No - BUT Jesus knew the word of God, and what God promised. And Jesus knew God would fulfill His promises.

We must show the same faith in God's promises regardless of how life turns out.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:34 PM
 
358 posts, read 165,084 times
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Part of the confusion oftentimes, I think, is in understanding the place of faith, and that of works.

That oft-cited passage in Ephesians (verses 8,9) tells us:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So, God receives all the glory for our salvation. It's totally from God (even our faith is "the gift of God'). And it is clearly not of works, that we may not boast.

But then verse 10 continues...

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them".

The works are an evidence of our salvation, and outworking of what God has done in us. Notice the following passage in James:

James 2:14-18

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.


So our works, even our behavior (patience, or lack thereof; an attitude of humilty, knowing that God has saved us purely by His grace, and that we had better not think of ourselves more highly than we ought, as a result; and the fruit of the Spirit that we read about in Galatians 5, are all part of the picture).

But we may never think that somehow our good works merit our salvation, because we would then be required to keep the whole law perfectly.

Note also:

Gal 2:16

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

So it's all a matter of putting things in their proper biblical perspective. I will also print out Galatians 3:10,11 and Phil 3:9, as I believe they are work looking at.

Gal 3:10-11
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


Phil 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Last edited by JAA2310; 09-30-2011 at 05:42 PM..
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:38 PM
 
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Abel and Cain. Abel acted in faith by offering the sacrifice of innocent life (animal) as was ordained. Cain offered the works of his hands from crops of the cursed ground.

The ordained sacrifice was excepted. Our offering of our works was not.
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