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Old 10-01-2011, 08:18 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,220 posts, read 26,406,306 times
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For whoever may be interested, here is a study on the books of Daniel and Revelation. It consists of 51 audio lessons. There are 20 lessons for Daniel and 31 lessons for Revelation. This study is done on a chapter by chapter basis rather than verse by verse. It is given by a doctrinally oriented pastor and will help your understanding of Revelation which is actually easy to understand.

Here is the study: Daniel and Revelation | Austin Bible Church Just click on the lesson number.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:32 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,220 posts, read 26,406,306 times
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For those of you who think that Christians will go through the tribulation, I suggest that you avail yourselves of this study. The rapture of the church has to occur before the tribulation can begin. When the church is raptured, the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit is lifted.The Holy Spirit will still be present because He is omnipresent, but He will no longer restrain the appearance of the antichrist. The antichrist (the beast) cannot come to power until the church is taken off the earth. The book of Revelation shows the church in heaven before the first seal is broken. It also shows the church returning to the earth with Christ at the end of the tribulation.

Some of you think that because Revelation mentions saints on the earth during the tribulation that that refers to Christians. It does not. It refers to those who come to trust in Christ during the tribulation. But they will still be Jews and Gentiles. They will not be church. They will not be Christians. The term Christian refers to those who come to Christ during this present dispensation of the church.

If you are a believer in Jesus Christ I strongly advise you to take the time to learn what is taught in this study.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:26 AM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,388,982 times
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Mike555,

I have not yet read your noted study but have read of others. Would you be so kind as to tell us why you believe this study is the correct interpretation? There are so many interpretations 'out there'. How can one know with any amount of certainty which is correct? Thank you for your time!
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:31 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,220 posts, read 26,406,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
Mike555,

I have not yet read your noted study but have read of others. Would you be so kind as to tell us why you believe this study is the correct interpretation? There are so many interpretations 'out there'. How can one know with any amount of certainty which is correct? Thank you for your time!
It is not a matter of reading, as this study consists of 51 audio lessons.

The Bible is quite clear that the rapture of the church is pretribulational and this study from a doctrinally sound pastor/teacher recognizes that. To understand that the church is raptured before the tribulation, you need to understand that God's plan is dispensational in nature. God has a different program for the church than He does for Israel.

One thing to understand is that the 70 weeks prophecy (70 weeks of years) spoken of in Daniel 9:24-27 has to do with Israel, and not the church. The first 69 weeks was completed before Jesus was crucified. The prophecy speaks first of 7 weeks and then of 62 weeks for a total of 69 weeks. The 62 weeks follow the first 7 weeks. Dan 9:26 states that the Messiah will be cut off (killed-crucified) after the 62 weeks. The church-age is inserted between the 69th week and the 70th week. The 70th week is the tribulation which is the remaining time left to the age (dispensation) of Israel. The church has no part in the 70th week of Daniels prophecy just as it had no part in the first 69 weeks.

As stated, the book of Revelation shows that the church (the bride of Christ) is in heaven during the tribulation and that it returns with Christ to the earth at the end of the tribulation (Rev 19:7-14).

The purpose of the tribulation is to bring judgment upon Israel and the Gentile nations which have rejected Jesus Christ. The tribulation is designed to bring Israel back into a state of belief. It is because of the judgments of the tribulation that Israel will finally acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. And Jesus will return at the end of the tribulation to deliver Israel from the Gentile armies which attack Israel.

During the tribulation, the church will be in heaven undergoing the judgment seat of Christ in which believers will be evaluated for the purpose of receiving eternal rewards.

There is so much more to a study of Revelation than just the fact that the church is in heaven during the tribulation.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,521,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is not a matter of reading, as this study consists of 51 audio lessons.

The Bible is quite clear that the rapture of the church is pretribulational and this study from a doctrinally sound pastor/teacher recognizes that. To understand that the church is raptured before the tribulation, you need to understand that God's plan is dispensational in nature. God has a different program for the church than He does for Israel.

One thing to understand is that the 70 weeks prophecy (70 weeks of years) spoken of in Daniel 9:24-27 has to do with Israel, and not the church. The first 69 weeks was completed before Jesus was crucified. The prophecy speaks first of 7 weeks and then of 62 weeks for a total of 69 weeks. The 62 weeks follow the first 7 weeks. Dan 9:26 states that the Messiah will be cut off (killed-crucified) after the 62 weeks. The church-age is inserted between the 69th week and the 70th week. The 70th week is the tribulation which is the remaining time left to the age (dispensation) of Israel. The church has no part in the 70th week of Daniels prophecy just as it had no part in the first 69 weeks.

As stated, the book of Revelation shows that the church (the bride of Christ) is in heaven during the tribulation and that it returns with Christ to the earth at the end of the tribulation (Rev 19:7-14).

The purpose of the tribulation is to bring judgment upon Israel and the Gentile nations which have rejected Jesus Christ. The tribulation is designed to bring Israel back into a state of belief. It is because of the judgments of the tribulation that Israel will finally acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. And Jesus will return at the end of the tribulation to deliver Israel from the Gentile armies which attack Israel.

During the tribulation, the church will be in heaven undergoing the judgment seat of Christ in which believers will be evaluated for the purpose of receiving eternal rewards.

There is so much more to a study of Revelation than just the fact that the church is in heaven during the tribulation.
So because there is 70 weeks, it doesn't matter that you have inserted a 69 1/2 week that has lasted 2000+ years?


I get it... It allows for myriads of interpretation to finally be right but other than that it makes very little sense. The 69th week should be the same distance from the 70th as the 68th ( and ALL other weeks before it were) was from the 67th.
ouch!
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,342,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
It allows for myriads of interpretation to finally be right but other than that it makes very little sense.
Appealingly, nonsensical.
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:16 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,220 posts, read 26,406,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So because there is 70 weeks, it doesn't matter that you have inserted a 69 1/2 week that has lasted 2000+ years?


I get it... It allows for myriads of interpretation to finally be right but other than that it makes very little sense. The 69th week should be the same distance from the 70th as the 68th ( and ALL other weeks before it were) was from the 67th.
ouch!
The 70th week of the prophecy did not immediately follow the 69th week and has not happened yet. The age of Israel has been put on hold until the church-age which interrupted the age of Israel is complete. Shortly after the church is raptured, the tribulation which is the 70th week of Daniel will begin.

Both the crucifixion of Jesus and the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem took place after the completion of the 69th week ( Daniel 9:26). The destruction of the temple took place in 70 A.D. That was some 36 or 37 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. Daniel 9:27 states that the beast or antichrist will sign a covenant with the many. It is that signing of the covenant which marks the beginning of the tribulation - Daniel's 70th week. This has not happened yet. It will happen soon after the church has been raptured.
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:38 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,220 posts, read 26,406,306 times
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On a forum such as this, it is inevitable that there will be comments such as were made in posts #5 and 6. But I provided this study on Daniel and Revelation so that those who are interested can have a better understanding of the book of Revelation. I still hope that there are those on this forum who are interested enough to see what a doctrinally oriented pastor/teacher has to teach on the subject. If not, then perhaps someone stumbling on this forum and on this thread by way of the internet will benefit by it.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,521,971 times
Reputation: 1739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The 70th week of the prophecy did not immediately follow the 69th week and has not happened yet. The age of Israel has been put on hold until the church-age which interrupted the age of Israel is complete. Shortly after the church is raptured, the tribulation which is the 70th week of Daniel will begin.

Both the crucifixion of Jesus and the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem took place after the completion of the 69th week ( Daniel 9:26). The destruction of the temple took place in 70 A.D. That was some 36 or 37 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. Daniel 9:27 states that the beast or antichrist will sign a covenant with the many. It is that signing of the covenant which marks the beginning of the tribulation - Daniel's 70th week. This has not happened yet. It will happen soon after the church has been raptured.
I don't know how you expect anyone to believe that weeks 1-69 went by without interruption but there is 2000+ years in-between weeks 69 and 70.

It doesnt make any sense. The time was ripe then.... That generation fit the description of the 70th week perfectly.

Besides that.... With the second coming of Christ comes salvation according to hebrews 9:28. No second coming, no salvation. Right?
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:03 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,220 posts, read 26,406,306 times
Reputation: 16335
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I don't know how you expect anyone to believe that weeks 1-69 went by without interruption but there is 2000+ years in-between weeks 69 and 70.

It doesnt make any sense. The time was ripe then.... That generation fit the description of the 70th week perfectly.

Besides that.... With the second coming of Christ comes salvation according to hebrews 9:28. No second coming, no salvation. Right?


Even a Preterist who erroniously thinks that the tribulation occurred in 70 A.D. has to acknowledge that there was a gap between the 69th week and the 70th week. Again, Daniel 9:26-27 reveal that the crucifixion of Christ and the destruction of the city (Jerusalem) and the temple ocurred between the 69th week and the 70th week. But the gap between the 69th and 70th weeks is far longer than just 36 or 37 years. It has so far lasted for about two thousand years.

Once again, the prophetic calender regarding Daniels 70 weeks (of years) has been put on hold for the duration of the church age.

Hebrews 9:28 refers to the salvation of the body - resurrection, which is stage 3 sanctification or ultimate sanctification. The soul is saved at the very moment anyone believes in Christ. The Second Advent of Christ is still future and will take place at the end of the tribulation.

And one of the reasons that I provided this study is so that people will better understand Daniels 70 weeks prophecy and how it relates to the tribulation which is the 70th week and which will take place shortly after the church is raptured.

But the study takes in far more than just Daniel's prophecy. I encourage those reading this to take the time to listen to the study so that you will better understand both the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation.
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