Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-11-2011, 01:13 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,388,982 times
Reputation: 182

Advertisements

Who is "God" and who is "LORD God" in the Old Testament?

(Referencing Genesis 2:2 and Genesis 2:4 concerning creation)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-11-2011, 02:39 PM
 
698 posts, read 647,600 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
Who is "God" and who is "LORD God" in the Old Testament?

(Referencing Genesis 2:2 and Genesis 2:4 concerning creation)
angels
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2011, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Richmond, Indiana
124 posts, read 166,442 times
Reputation: 17
Default "God" And "LORD" God Are In Reference To The Same Being In Translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
Who is "God" and who is "LORD God" in the Old Testament?

(Referencing Genesis 2:2 and Genesis 2:4 concerning creation)
The word "God" is in reference to Father Yahweh's title in translation. The Canaanite/Hebrew words translated as "God" are 'El, Eloah, or Elohim'. The root of these words come from the Hebrew 'yl' or 'ul' and mean 'strength, power, or might'. Father Yahweh is Almighty while others referred to as 'yl' or 'ul' are lesser than Father Yahweh Who is the source of all power (authority). The word "LORD' is a replacement of our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name and in most places where His Name is supposed to be, you will find "the LORD" with the word 'lord' being in all small capital letters. This word 'lord' is represented in all capital letters in order that the reader can distinguish Him from all lesser beings who are referred to as "lord" in translation of Scripture. For example, wives referred to their husbands as 'lord' in translation. The meaning of the word 'lord' means 'keeper of the loaf' and this may very well be where a husband is referred to a the "bread winner" of the household in more modern times. FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua ["Jesus"] Whom He raised from the dead (resurrected), anointed (messiah) and appointed to reign as King for 1,000 years is also referred to as "Lord" in translation. Note that when "Lord" is given in reference to Yahshua in translation, you will not find this title in reference to him in all capital letters, since he is lesser than his and our FATHER Yahweh. Yahshua is clearly recorded in the so-called "New Testament" as proclaiming that the FATHER is GREATER than he. This is how in translation the reader is to distinguish the FATHER from His SON. Not all translations follow this practice in the so-called "New Testament" and many become confused as who is being given reference to as "Lord" in translation. This is one of the main reasons that FATHER Yahweh's Name should have never been removed from Scripture and substituted with an inferior name/titles such as 'Lord and God'. Scripture teaches against such a practice in that it instructs that we are not to add unto nor take away from these books of prophecy. Where you find "LORD God" in translation this is supposed to be "Yahweh Almighty". For an abundance of in depth and scholarly information of these facts, please see my web site at:

The Name Yahweh
http://yahweh.yolasite.com

Last edited by Frank4YAHWEH; 10-24-2011 at 12:55 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2011, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Richmond, Indiana
124 posts, read 166,442 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Jesus Christ is God and Son of God ...Scriptures in the bible..........Matthew 1:23....``the virgin will be with Child, and bear a Son and they will call His name Immanuel, which means `God with us``.............Isaiah 9: 6...For unto us a child is born, a Son is given and the government will be on his shoulders, and His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, MIGHTY GOD, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Nowhere in Scripture will you ever find it said "Jesus Christ is God!". You also will not find Yahshua ["Jesus"] recorded in the so-called New Testament as ever proclaiming or saying "I am God!". As to Yahshua being called "Immanuel" by NAME, note that he is never CALLED by this NAME in Scripture translation. In translation his GIVEN NAME is "JESUS" and is CALLED by this NAME throughout so-called "New Testament" translations. Many times in translation a TITLE is referred to as a 'NAME'. The translation "Immanuel" is in actuality a name/title and not His GIVEN NAME. Note that it is recorded that FATHER Yahweh GAVE His SON his name and that this name is ABOVE ALL OTHER NAMES [and titles] (Philippians 2:9) and that there is NO OTHER NAME under Heaven GIVEN among men whereby we MUST be redeemed (Acts 4:12). The name/title "Immanuel" means 'a mighty one is with us'. There are many in Scripture whose names include the 'el' word within their names. This 'el' words within these names are in reference to Father Yahweh. El in Canaanite/Hebrew language can be traced back to the Hebrew root 'yl' or 'ul' and means 'strength, power or might'. The word 'el' in Scripture is also given in reference to judges, angels and mere men. One example of 'el' being in reference to mere men is when Moshe was made an 'el' (or 'mighty one') to Pharaoh by Father Yahweh Note the following from the KJV where 'el' has been translated as 'god':

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (el) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet (Exodus 7:1).

Now note that Moshe said that Yahweh will raise up a prophet like unto him:

Yahweh your Almighty One will raise up unto you a prophet from the midst of you, of your brethren, like unto me; unto him you shall hearken; (Deuteronomy 18:15).

Note that Moshe says that Father Yahweh conveyed this message unto him:

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto you, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My Name, I will require [it] of him. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in My Name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other mighty ones ["elohim gods"], even that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart, How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the Name of Yahweh, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which Yahweh has not spoken, [but] the prophet has spoken it presumptuously: you shall not be afraid of him (Deuteronomy 18:18-22).

Yahshua was most certainly a mighty one (one with power) like unto Moshe, but he certainly was not the Almighty One Yahweh our Heavenly Father and Creator. Yahshua received his power (authority) from on high from his and our Father Yahweh, since Yahweh is the source of all power. Note again that Yahshua proclaimed that he had been GIVEN ALL power in Heaven and in the earth as I had previously made known. In his saying this, one can clearly see that he did not have power (authority) until it was GIVEN to him by his and our Father Yahweh.







As to the translation of Isaiah 9:6, please see my blog entry on this translation at:

Does Isayah 9:6 Proclaim Yahshua To Be Yahweh?
Does Isaiah 9:6 Claim That "Jesus is God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Isaiah 43: 10-11..``.You are my witness, and My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know, and believe, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor will there be after me even I am the Lord and besides Me there is no Savior`
At the time this verse was prophetically inspired, there was no redeemer other than FATHER Yahweh, but in this last time period FATHER Yahweh sent His SON Yahshua into the world. At his time Yahshua proclaimed that ALL power (authority) had been GIVEN to him in Heaven and in the Earth and this "ALL power (authority) most certainly included the power (authority) to redeem man kind from sin and death as Yahshua clearly proclaimed.

Then Yahshua came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me (Matthithyah [Mattew] 28:18).

But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins..." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home." (Mattithyah [Matthew] 9:6)

Yahshua ["Jesus"] Is FATHER Yahweh's Promised and Prophesied "HUMBLE SERVANT"

Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My spirit upon him and he will bring forth justice to the nations. He will not cry out or raise his voice, nor make his voice heard in the street. A bruised reed he will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not extinguish and he will faithfully bring forth justice. He will not be disheartened or crushed, until he has established justice in the earth; and the coast lands will wait expectantly for his instruction (Isayah 42:1-4).

Behold, My servant will act wisely and he will rise up, be lifted up, he will be exalted on high. Just as many were astonished at you,
so his appearance was disfigured so to lose resemblance with man, so his form was marred beyond recognition as a man. Just so he will sprinkle many nations; and kings will shut their mouths because of him; for that which they were not told, they will see; and that which they have not heard, they will understand (Isayah 52:13-15).

Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of Yahweh been revealed? For he grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to him. He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face, he was despised, and we did not esteem him (Isayah 53:1-3).

Surely our griefs he Himself bore, And our sorrows he carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken, Smitten of Yahweh, and afflicted. But he was pierced through for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon him, And by his scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But Yahweh has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on him (Isayah 53:4-6).

He was oppressed and he was afflicted, Yet he did not open his mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; And as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, For the transgression of My people to whom the stroke was due? His grave was assigned with wicked men, yet he was with a rich man in his death, because he had done no violence, nor was there any deceit in his mouth (Isayah 53:7-9).

But Yahweh was pleased to crush him, putting him to grief; if he would render himself as a guilt offering, he will see his offspring, he will prolong his time, and the righteous pleasure of Yahweh will prosper in his hand. As a result of the anguish of his soul, he will see it and be satisfied; by his knowledge the Righteous One, My servant, will justify the many, As he will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will allot him a portion with the great, And he will divide the booty with the strong; Because he poured out himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet he himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors (Isaiah 53:10-12).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Isaiah 44: 6...11..``God is the Redeemer``...........2 Peter 1: 1 .....Jesus is the Redeemer....by the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ``........John 1: 1,14.....`
As I made know above, FATHER Yahweh is our Supreme Redeemer and Yahshua is also our redeemer in this last time period by the power (authority) of his and our Father Yahweh. It is THOUGH (BY WAY OF) FATHER Yahweh's SON that we are redeemed by his ultimate sacrifice that he made. This is why Yahshua said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me (Yahchanan [John] 14:6).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
`The word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us``.....
Note that the above verse taken from Yahchanan [John] 1:1 does not say "... and the word was Jesus." as many falsely and deceptively try to proclaim. Yahchanan is speaking here about "In the BEGINNING" in reference to what he learned from the book or scroll of Genesis of how Father Yahweh spoke His word and what He said that was to be created came into existence.

IN THE BEGINNING was the word (Yahweh's word), and the word (Yahweh's word) was with Yahweh, and the word was Yahweh (Yahchanan [John] 1:1).

The word "God" in translation is in reference to FATHER Yahweh, not in reference to His SON Yahshua, since Yahshua did not exist IN THE BEGINNING with his and our FATHER Yahweh.

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
.....John 8: 24, 58......``I said to you that you will die in your sin, for if you do not believe that I AM HE you will die in your sins ,
When Yahshua said "... I am he ..." he was giving reference to himself as the promised, prophesied and coming Messiah. Many capitalize on what he said here ("I AM HE") in attempt to deceive many to believe that he was saying that he was "The Great I Am", when he in fact never made such a proclamation. Note that he said the word "believe" in this statement he made here. Nowhere in Scripture are we ever asked to BELIEVE or confess the foolish, false, deceptive, and demonic doctrine "Jesus IS God!". There is no such doctrine taught in Scripture from where we are to get our doctrine for reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness. What we are asked to BELIEVE and to CONFESS is that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh. We know for a fact that Yahweh is Yahshua's FATHER, since he is frequently recorded in the so-called "New Testament" as referring to Yahweh as his and our FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH (or "IN THE WORLD"). FATHER Yahweh is also recorded in this same section of the Scripture as referring the Yahshua as His SON.

"Jesus IS God!"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
..I say to you before Abraham was I AM..``............John 10: 30...Jesus said ...`
What Did Yahshua Mean When He Said: "Before Abraham Was I Am."?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
`I and My Father are one``.....
Note that Yahshua did not say "I and my Father are one and (or 'in') the same being." as many deceptively attempt to teach he said. What did Yahshua mean about being "one" with his and our FATHER Yahweh? What he meant when he said "one" is bore out in what he communicated ("prayed") to his and our FATHER Yahweh WHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH (or "IN THE WORLD"):

And the esteem which You gave me I have given them; that they may be one, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE: (Yahchanan [John] 17:22).

From what he said here we know that when he said "one" that he did not mean "one and the same being". Certainly he was not communicating his desire to his and our FATHER Yahweh Who is in Heaven that the men that He gave him from the world also be "one and the same being" even as they were "one and the same being" as many falsely and deceptively teach. He certainly was not asking his and our FATHER Yahweh that the men that He gave him from the world also be "God"! Note that when false prophets and preachers say this that they are adding unto the prophetic word that Yahshua spoke the three words "... and (or "in") the same being." This adding onto the prophetic word of Yahweh is strictly forbidden in Scripture. In doing that they are also in turn taking away from Father Yahweh's prophetic word that His son Yahshua spoke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
.....John 14: 6-7.....``Jesus said `I Am the way and the truth, and the Life. No one come to the Father except through Me``................John 14: 19-11.....``Jesus said ...``
This here is self explanatory in accordance with what I have revealed above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
........John 14: 19-11.....``Jesus said ...``He who has seen Me has seen the Father`, so how can you say `Show us the Father`?.....
The word 'see' ("seen") is not always in reference to what one sees with their eyes just as the word 'hear' is not always in reference to what one hears with their ears. These word are used by Yahshua in reference to what one perceives or understands as is bore out in what he says as follows:

That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them (Yahchanan Mark 4:12).

Yahshua learned this from Father Yahweh's inspired word. See: Deuteronomy 29:4 and Ezekiel 12:2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
...John 20 :28..Thomas said ..``My Lord My God``......
Did Thomas Call Yahshua "God"?



Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
..Acts 20:28..``God purchased us with His own Blood``......Revelation 5: 9...Jesus blood redeemed us to God ``...
All blood belongs to FATHER Yahweh our Creator, especially the blood of His SON Yahshua!



Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
...Titus 2: 1...``Blessed hope and glorious appearing of the Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ``.........................Here is a few example in the Bible that give The Lord and His Children saying that Jesus Is God and Saviour , Father is God and Saviour and Holy Spirit is God and deliverer of Gods blessings....
When it says in translation: "... the Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." it is speaking of two separate beings here. The word "God" is in reference to FATHER Yahweh and the words "our Saviour Jesus Christ" is in reference to His SON. Note that these two separate beings (the FATHER and His SON) are separated in this verse with the word "AND". Again note that Yahshua proclaimed that ALL power (authority) was GIVEN to him in Heaven and in the Earth by his and our FATHER Yahweh Who is the source of ALL power. This ALL power (authority) most certainly included the power (authority) to forvive and redeem mankind from sin and death as Yahshua clearly proclaimed (Mattithyah [Matthew] 9:6). FATHER Yahweh is our Supreme Redeemer and He GAVE His SON the authority to forgive and redeem mankind from sin and death.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2011, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,441 posts, read 61,346,326 times
Reputation: 30387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank4YAHWEH View Post
Nowhere in Scripture will you ever find it said "Jesus Christ is God!". ...
Great post
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2011, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,907,004 times
Reputation: 18713
The OP is setting up a silly arguement. Because the scripture is not written to his liking, he rejects the whole concept that Jesus is God. I will post several texts that clearly state, Jesus is God almighty. If you reject this, your blood is on your own head.
Jn 5:22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, Jn 5:23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Now here are some of the clearer texts for your examination. 
 
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (If you read on down through the text you will see that John is clearly referring to Jesus. )

Jesus was clearly acclaimed as the Messiah by the disciples and the huge crowd on Palm Sunday, and many other Jews. The Old Testament prophecies clearly teach that the Messiah would be God himself. Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jn 5:17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working."Jn 5:18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD.

The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." Mt 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say,"Jesus replied.

1Jn 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.


You have to remember that genuine Orthodox Christianity has always taught that God is triune. There is one God and yet there are three persons, all of which are true God. Father Son and Holy Spirit, which is why to have a genuine Christian baptism, the person must be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as Jesus instructed. Check out the Nicene Creed and Athanasian creed for a simple but complete statement of this doctrine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2011, 11:57 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,013,938 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I think it's entirely possible for the Son of God to share the title of "God" with His Father, but it's impossible for the same individual to be his own Father and/or His own Son. A Father-Son relationship requires that there be two physically distinct individuals.
Maybe in our world...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2011, 12:05 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,013,938 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank4YAHWEH View Post
The word "God" is in reference to Father Yahweh's title in translation. The Canaanite/Hebrew words translated as "God" are 'El, Eloah, or Elohim'. The root of these words come from the Hebrew 'yl' or 'ul' and mean 'strength, power, or might'. Father Yahweh is Almighty while others referred to as 'yl' or 'ul' are lesser than Father Yahweh Who is the source of all power (authority). The word "LORD' is a replacement of our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name and in most places where His Name is supposed to be, you will find "the LORD" with the word 'lord' being in all small capital letters. This word 'lord' is represented in all capital letters in order that the reader can distinguish Him from all lesser beings who are referred to as "lord" in translation of Scripture. For example, wives referred to their husbands as 'lord' in translation. The meaning of the word 'lord' means 'keeper of the loaf' and this may very well be where a husband is referred to a the "bread winner" of the household in more modern times. FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua ["Jesus"] Whom He raised from the dead (resurrected), anointed (messiah) and appointed to reign as King for 1,000 years is also referred to as "Lord" in translation. Note that when "Lord" is given in reference to Yahshua in translation, you will not find this title in reference to him in all capital letters, since he is lesser than his and our FATHER Yahweh. Yahshua is clearly recorded in the so-called "New Testament" as proclaiming that the FATHER is GREATER than he. This is how in translation the reader is to distinguish the FATHER from His SON. Not all translations follow this practice in the so-called "New Testament" and many become confused as who is being given reference to as "Lord" in translation. This is one of the main reasons that FATHER Yahweh's Name should have never been removed from Scripture and substituted with an inferior name/titles such as 'Lord and God'. Scripture teaches against such a practice in that it instructs that we are not to add unto nor take away from these books of prophecy. Where you find "LORD God" in translation this is supposed to be "Yahweh Almighty". For an abundance of in depth and scholarly information of these facts, please see my web site at:

The Name Yahweh
http://yahweh.yolasite.com
Are you related to the Young family?...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2011, 12:16 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,013,938 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson View Post
The OP is setting up a silly arguement. Because the scripture is not written to his liking, he rejects the whole concept that Jesus is God. I will post several texts that clearly state, Jesus is God almighty. If you reject this, your blood is on your own head.
Jn 5:22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, Jn 5:23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Now here are some of the clearer texts for your examination. 
 
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (If you read on down through the text you will see that John is clearly referring to Jesus. )

Jesus was clearly acclaimed as the Messiah by the disciples and the huge crowd on Palm Sunday, and many other Jews. The Old Testament prophecies clearly teach that the Messiah would be God himself. Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jn 5:17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working."Jn 5:18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD.

The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." Mt 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say,"Jesus replied.

1Jn 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.


You have to remember that genuine Orthodox Christianity has always taught that God is triune. There is one God and yet there are three persons, all of which are true God. Father Son and Holy Spirit, which is why to have a genuine Christian baptism, the person must be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as Jesus instructed. Check out the Nicene Creed and Athanasian creed for a simple but complete statement of this doctrine.
You forgot to mention Jn. 1:14 'And the Word became flesh'...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2011, 12:18 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,013,938 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank4YAHWEH View Post
Nowhere in Scripture will you ever find it said "Jesus Christ is God!". You also will not find Yahshua ["Jesus"] recorded in the so-called New Testament as ever proclaiming or saying "I am God!". As to Yahshua being called "Immanuel" by NAME, note that he is never CALLED by this NAME in Scripture translation. In translation his GIVEN NAME is "JESUS" and is CALLED by this NAME throughout so-called "New Testament" translations. Many times in translation a TITLE is referred to as a 'NAME'. The translation "Immanuel" is in actuality a name/title and not His GIVEN NAME. Note that it is recorded that FATHER Yahweh GAVE His SON his name and that this name is ABOVE ALL OTHER NAMES [and titles] (Philippians 2:9) and that there is NO OTHER NAME under Heaven GIVEN among men whereby we MUST be redeemed (Acts 4:12). The name/title "Immanuel" means 'a mighty one is with us'. There are many in Scripture whose names include the 'el' word within their names. This 'el' words within these names are in reference to Father Yahweh. El in Canaanite/Hebrew language can be traced back to the Hebrew root 'yl' or 'ul' and means 'strength, power or might'. The word 'el' in Scripture is also given in reference to judges, angels and mere men. One example of 'el' being in reference to mere men is when Moshe was made an 'el' (or 'mighty one') to Pharaoh by Father Yahweh Note the following from the KJV where 'el' has been translated as 'god':

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (el) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet (Exodus 7:1).

Now note that Moshe said that Yahweh will raise up a prophet like unto him:

Yahweh your Almighty One will raise up unto you a prophet from the midst of you, of your brethren, like unto me; unto him you shall hearken; (Deuteronomy 18:15).

Note that Moshe says that Father Yahweh conveyed this message unto him:

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto you, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My Name, I will require [it] of him. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in My Name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other mighty ones ["elohim gods"], even that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart, How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the Name of Yahweh, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which Yahweh has not spoken, [but] the prophet has spoken it presumptuously: you shall not be afraid of him (Deuteronomy 18:18-22).

Yahshua was most certainly a mighty one (one with power) like unto Moshe, but he certainly was not the Almighty One Yahweh our Heavenly Father and Creator. Yahshua received his power (authority) from on high from his and our Father Yahweh, since Yahweh is the source of all power. Note again that Yahshua proclaimed that he had been GIVEN ALL power in Heaven and in the earth as I had previously made known. In his saying this, one can clearly see that he did not have power (authority) until it was GIVEN to him by his and our Father Yahweh.







As to the translation of Isaiah 9:6, please see my blog entry on this translation at:

Does Isayah 9:6 Proclaim Yahshua To Be Yahweh?
Does Isaiah 9:6 Claim That "Jesus is God"?



At the time this verse was prophetically inspired, there was no redeemer other than FATHER Yahweh, but in this last time period FATHER Yahweh sent His SON Yahshua into the world. At his time Yahshua proclaimed that ALL power (authority) had been GIVEN to him in Heaven and in the Earth and this "ALL power (authority) most certainly included the power (authority) to redeem man kind from sin and death as Yahshua clearly proclaimed.

Then Yahshua came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me (Matthithyah [Mattew] 28:18).

But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins..." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home." (Mattithyah [Matthew] 9:6)

Yahshua ["Jesus"] Is FATHER Yahweh's Promised and Prophesied "HUMBLE SERVANT"

Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My spirit upon him and he will bring forth justice to the nations. He will not cry out or raise his voice, nor make his voice heard in the street. A bruised reed he will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not extinguish and he will faithfully bring forth justice. He will not be disheartened or crushed, until he has established justice in the earth; and the coast lands will wait expectantly for his instruction (Isayah 42:1-4).

Behold, My servant will act wisely and he will rise up, be lifted up, he will be exalted on high. Just as many were astonished at you,
so his appearance was disfigured so to lose resemblance with man, so his form was marred beyond recognition as a man. Just so he will sprinkle many nations; and kings will shut their mouths because of him; for that which they were not told, they will see; and that which they have not heard, they will understand (Isayah 52:13-15).

Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of Yahweh been revealed? For he grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to him. He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face, he was despised, and we did not esteem him (Isayah 53:1-3).

Surely our griefs he Himself bore, And our sorrows he carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken, Smitten of Yahweh, and afflicted. But he was pierced through for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon him, And by his scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But Yahweh has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on him (Isayah 53:4-6).

He was oppressed and he was afflicted, Yet he did not open his mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; And as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, For the transgression of My people to whom the stroke was due? His grave was assigned with wicked men, yet he was with a rich man in his death, because he had done no violence, nor was there any deceit in his mouth (Isayah 53:7-9).

But Yahweh was pleased to crush him, putting him to grief; if he would render himself as a guilt offering, he will see his offspring, he will prolong his time, and the righteous pleasure of Yahweh will prosper in his hand. As a result of the anguish of his soul, he will see it and be satisfied; by his knowledge the Righteous One, My servant, will justify the many, As he will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will allot him a portion with the great, And he will divide the booty with the strong; Because he poured out himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet he himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors (Isaiah 53:10-12).



As I made know above, FATHER Yahweh is our Supreme Redeemer and Yahshua is also our redeemer in this last time period by the power (authority) of his and our Father Yahweh. It is THOUGH (BY WAY OF) FATHER Yahweh's SON that we are redeemed by his ultimate sacrifice that he made. This is why Yahshua said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me (Yahchanan [John] 14:6).



Note that the above verse taken from Yahchanan [John] 1:1 does not say "... and the word was Jesus." as many falsely and deceptively try to proclaim. Yahchanan is speaking here about "In the BEGINNING" in reference to what he learned from the book or scroll of Genesis of how Father Yahweh spoke His word and what He said that was to be created came into existence.

IN THE BEGINNING was the word (Yahweh's word), and the word (Yahweh's word) was with Yahweh, and the word was Yahweh (Yahchanan [John] 1:1).

The word "God" in translation is in reference to FATHER Yahweh, not in reference to His SON Yahshua, since Yahshua did not exist IN THE BEGINNING with his and our FATHER Yahweh.

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?




When Yahshua said "... I am he ..." he was giving reference to himself as the promised, prophesied and coming Messiah. Many capitalize on what he said here ("I AM HE") in attempt to deceive many to believe that he was saying that he was "The Great I Am", when he in fact never made such a proclamation. Note that he said the word "believe" in this statement he made here. Nowhere in Scripture are we ever asked to BELIEVE or confess the foolish, false, deceptive, and demonic doctrine "Jesus IS God!". There is no such doctrine taught in Scripture from where we are to get our doctrine for reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness. What we are asked to BELIEVE and to CONFESS is that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh. We know for a fact that Yahweh is Yahshua's FATHER, since he is frequently recorded in the so-called "New Testament" as referring to Yahweh as his and our FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH (or "IN THE WORLD"). FATHER Yahweh is also recorded in this same section of the Scripture as referring the Yahshua as His SON.

"Jesus IS God!"?




What Did Yahshua Mean When He Said: "Before Abraham Was I Am."?




Note that Yahshua did not say "I and my Father are one and (or 'in') the same being." as many deceptively attempt to teach he said. What did Yahshua mean about being "one" with his and our FATHER Yahweh? What he meant when he said "one" is bore out in what he communicated ("prayed") to his and our FATHER Yahweh WHO IS IN HEAVEN when he himself WAS HERE ON EARTH (or "IN THE WORLD"):

And the esteem which You gave me I have given them; that they may be one, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE: (Yahchanan [John] 17:22).

From what he said here we know that when he said "one" that he did not mean "one and the same being". Certainly he was not communicating his desire to his and our FATHER Yahweh Who is in Heaven that the men that He gave him from the world also be "one and the same being" even as they were "one and the same being" as many falsely and deceptively teach. He certainly was not asking his and our FATHER Yahweh that the men that He gave him from the world also be "God"! Note that when false prophets and preachers say this that they are adding unto the prophetic word that Yahshua spoke the three words "... and (or "in") the same being." This adding onto the prophetic word of Yahweh is strictly forbidden in Scripture. In doing that they are also in turn taking away from Father Yahweh's prophetic word that His son Yahshua spoke.



This here is self explanatory in accordance with what I have revealed above.



The word 'see' ("seen") is not always in reference to what one sees with their eyes just as the word 'hear' is not always in reference to what one hears with their ears. These word are used by Yahshua in reference to what one perceives or understands as is bore out in what he says as follows:

That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them (Yahchanan Mark 4:12).

Yahshua learned this from Father Yahweh's inspired word. See: Deuteronomy 29:4 and Ezekiel 12:2.




Did Thomas Call Yahshua "God"?





All blood belongs to FATHER Yahweh our Creator, especially the blood of His SON Yahshua!





When it says in translation: "... the Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." it is speaking of two separate beings here. The word "God" is in reference to FATHER Yahweh and the words "our Saviour Jesus Christ" is in reference to His SON. Note that these two separate beings (the FATHER and His SON) are separated in this verse with the word "AND". Again note that Yahshua proclaimed that ALL power (authority) was GIVEN to him in Heaven and in the Earth by his and our FATHER Yahweh Who is the source of ALL power. This ALL power (authority) most certainly included the power (authority) to forvive and redeem mankind from sin and death as Yahshua clearly proclaimed (Mattithyah [Matthew] 9:6). FATHER Yahweh is our Supreme Redeemer and He GAVE His SON the authority to forgive and redeem mankind from sin and death.
You sound very Jehovah Witness....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:04 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top