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The FACT is...you do not KNOW FOR A FACT that this statement came directly out of Jesus' mouth...that is PURE SPECULATION and accepted by you by blind faith alone...given that the scriptures were written decades after Jesus was deceased and written by unknown sources as well.
And even if it can be attributed to Jesus....I'm quite certain Christianity has misconstrued and misunderstood the meaning of that statement.
Then we really have nothing left on which to base our faith.
If we question the accuracy of the words of Jesus as recorded in the Bible, then we're at an even greater deficit. And as far as how to understand the meaning of what Jesus said in that verse, we simply need to search the Scriptures.
In this case it's not too difficult, as the whole Bible, ultimately, is the Word of Christ (consequently, Christ is called "the Word"). We're constantly being urged to believe on Him in order to be saved.
So when Jesus tells us that no one comes to the Father except through Him, He is telling us the same thing we read in Acts 4:12:
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved
Then as we continue through the Scriptures we find that Christ provided atonement for all who would come to God through Him.
I pray that we don't take this matter too lightly. But if we hold to this position that the Bible is untrustworthy, and somehow claim to have become saved by a loving God, and through Christ, the only authority upon which we can base our conclusion is our own thinking, and this is very dangerous.
Well, here's the problem with your statement. You assume that other Christian denominations disagree with you on that point, therefore they are in a different denomination than yours. The truth is that differences in opinion lie in emphasis, as in which passages get more weight than the others. For example, there is no authoritative passage that explicitly tells how to baptize or marry, etc. What you are doing, in effect, is indulging in a conceit that comes from pointing out what you believe are the shortcomings in the beliefs of others.
Instead of slamming all the other denominations aside from your True and Special One (Whatever it is), why don't you take inspiration from a passage from Paul's letter to the Romans, Chapter 14:
1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.[c
AMEN! These things should be taken to heart and put to use, lest we be only hearers of the Word rather than doers.
I pray that we don't take this matter too lightly. But if we hold to this position that the Bible is untrustworthy, and somehow claim to have become saved by a loving God, and through Christ, the only authority upon which we can base our conclusion is our own thinking, and this is very dangerous.
Inherantly, believing the bible is trustworthy still is irrelevant when it requires human interpretation in order to figure out what it all means.
Humans are inherantly flawed and one can make the assertion that the holy spirit guides us, but ultimately our flawed perspectives cannot even get that correct.
How many people who believe opposite of one another claim they got their information from the holy spirit. There just is not true way to tell who is right and how trustworthy the bible is doesn't mean anything concerning that.
Quote:
Then we really have nothing left on which to base our faith.
Not true, no matter how flawed the bible is or isn't we can observe what direction is right and that is to strive to make ourselves and others better today than we were yesterday. Even from biblical standards, flawed interpretations, there is not one human on earth than can deny the concept of LOVE is proven to work and proven to be an established goal to figure out.
We may not all know how to love correctly, we may not all know when something is love when it appears to be something else (tough love) for instance.
But even the most hardened heart understands love even if they resist it with all their might.
When we observe people doing all of that, theN we can believe we are on the right path and basing our faith on something greater than humanity in that regaurd is a trustworthy and confident goal.
The problem we find is we think we must look at things from religious terms. LOVE is not good enough for some, we must say certain things about a man called Jesus, we must believe this and that using specific and correct terms and phrases.
Why is love not good enough? If God is LOVE, that ought to be enough.
All the religious assertions combined are trying in some way to define LOVE and put it into a box with one saying "This is love, believe it or else" NO another will say "This is love and you better believe it or else.
That is enough to see it is all hogwash. Even the atheist who seeks to love, seeks an existance that might define his life to be more than his human flesh actually understands what a God of LOVE might be trying to teach us all.
Jump out of our religious boxes, it actually IS safe.
Then we really have nothing left on which to base our faith.
If we question the accuracy of the words of Jesus as recorded in the Bible, then we're at an even greater deficit. And as far as how to understand the meaning of what Jesus said in that verse, we simply need to search the Scriptures.
In this case it's not too difficult, as the whole Bible, ultimately, is the Word of Christ (consequently, Christ is called "the Word"). We're constantly being urged to believe on Him in order to be saved.
So when Jesus tells us that no one comes to the Father except through Him, He is telling us the same thing we read in Acts 4:12:
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved
Then as we continue through the Scriptures we find that Christ provided atonement for all who would come to God through Him.
I pray that we don't take this matter too lightly. But if we hold to this position that the Bible is untrustworthy, and somehow claim to have become saved by a loving God, and through Christ, the only authority upon which we can base our conclusion is our own thinking, and this is very dangerous.
The bible is a book...useful for instruction (as is any other instruction manual)...but should never be idolized. Many lose sight of the profound WISDOM contained in the book when all they focus on are the LITERAL words...we all have an INNER WITNESS that will guide us into ALL TRUTH...we just have to trust in and follow it.
1 Thessalonians 2:13: "When you received from us the word of God's message [literally, "the word of hearing of God"], you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe."
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)
The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever. (Isaiah 40:8).
The bible is a book...useful for instruction (as is any other instruction manual)...but should never be idolized. Many lose sight of the profound WISDOM contained in the book when all they focus on are the LITERAL words...we all have an INNER WITNESS that will guide us into ALL TRUTH...we just have to trust in and follow it.
Too many do not believe God has "written in our hearts" and that Christ abides with us. They do not trust His Holy Spirit to guide them to what is "written in our hearts." They do not trust God or themselves, period.
Unless they happen to notice that is written in English and Jesus(as) spoke Aramaic. It is a translation and all translations carry with them the interpretation of the translator.
The oldest copies of the Gospel of John, are in Koine Greek, so that means we do not have the actual words Jesus(as) spoke, only Greek translations at best, which will contain some degree of interpretation, but we will never know how much as we do not have any documentation of the actual Aramaic words Jesus(as) used.
The bible is a book...useful for instruction (as is any other instruction manual)...but should never be idolized. Many lose sight of the profound WISDOM contained in the book when all they focus on are the LITERAL words...we all have an INNER WITNESS that will guide us into ALL TRUTH...we just have to trust in and follow it.
WOW! I was blessed by your statement about the bible should never be idolized. That hit me in the heart and convicted me. There are so many people who would argue you down about why this bible translation is better than some other one or that depending on who was on the translation committee you have to watch out whether that particular translation is one that can be taken seriously.
With this in mind, one translation that comes into question is the New World Translation. I hope you see where I am going with this. But since we don't speak the original languages as recorded in the bible. All we can hope and pray is that the translations that God has allowed to be translated are as close as to the original texts without demonizing the original meaning or translating verses that support our religion's interpretation of the bible. When we do that, God's word isn't His anymore. It's what we think His Word should be, and how tragic is that? I personally read many translations just to get a clearer view of God's word without relying solely on just one.
Unless they happen to notice that is written in English and Jesus(as) spoke Aramaic. It is a translation and all translations carry with them the interpretation of the translator.
The oldest copies of the Gospel of John, are in Koine Greek, so that means we do not have the actual words Jesus(as) spoke, only Greek translations at best, which will contain some degree of interpretation, but we will never know how much as we do not have any documentation of the actual Aramaic words Jesus(as) used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd
Ok point taken. Thanks
Jesus in all probability spoke Koine Greek as well as Aramaic. He lived in a society where Koine Greek was spoken by both the Romans and the Jews. Certainly when Jesus spoke to the Roman Centurian, and to Pilate, it would have been in Greek.
When Jesus did speak in Aramaic, such as is recorded in Matthew 27:46 where He said ''Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani?, Matthew makes a point of saying that in the Greek, it means, 'thee mou thee mou inati me enkatelipes'. These are transliterations of course. In English it reads, ''My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me. If Jesus had spoken only in Aramaic all the time, why would Matthew bother with making a point of Jesus speaking in Aramaic on this occasion? ---> Matthew 27:46 Biblos Interlinear Bible
God chose Koine Greek as the language in which the New Testament was to be written and so we can be sure that the Greek of the New Testament is accurate. Now, if certain Greek manuscript copies have variations in how that passage is written, then it would be a matter of using textual criticism to compare the various manuscripts to ascertain the most likely reading of the original autograph. None of the variations or errors in the manuscript copies have altered any point of doctrinal importance. The word of God has been preserved despite any errors or variations in any of the manuscript copies.
egō eimi ē odos kai ē alētheia kai ē zōē oudeis erchetai pros ton patera ei mē di emou translates accurately into English as "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me (or, 'if not through Me'). The meaning is the same. ---> John 14:6 Biblos Interlinear Bible
There is absolutely no reason to assume that Jesus spoke only in Aramaic, or that He didn't know Koine Greek.
I pray that we don't take this matter too lightly. But if we hold to this position that the Bible is untrustworthy, and somehow claim to have become saved by a loving God, and through Christ, the only authority upon which we can base our conclusion is our own thinking, and this is very dangerous.
AMEN! It's dangerous for anyone to say that the believe God but pick and chose what they believe about His spoken Word.
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