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Jesus said, those that believe, shall do the things He did and more.
Christianity has stood still, and not received the powers of Christ.
Which proves that we truly don't believe to the degree that gives us the right to His power.
Has the I'm Saved doctrine been the stumbling block or is it something else.
Many self professed Christians think of salvation as inheriting the kingdom of God and being with Jesus. No matter where their hearts are, or how they lived after saying a prayer and going to church.
Why are the teachings of Christ though of as not livable?
What are the consequences of this belief, if any...in your opinion?
Jesus said, those that believe, shall do the things He did and more.
Christianity has stood still, and not received the powers of Christ.
Which proves that we truly don't believe to the degree that gives us the right to His power.
It isn't that we lack the right to His power. It is that we do not have the relationship with Him to be utilized in the exercising of that power. What Jesus did was not of His accord. Rather, He was obedient and did the will of His Father. Most aren't even faithful in praying for another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
Has the I'm Saved doctrine been the stumbling block or is it something else.
Many self professed Christians think of salvation as inheriting the kingdom of God and being with Jesus. No matter where their hearts are, or how they lived after saying a prayer and going to church.
Why are the teachings of Christ though of as not livable?
What are the consequences of this belief, if any...in your opinion?
godspeed,
freedom
"Easy believism" is an incomplete message. We are told that even the devils believe. The key is putting back into the message the thrill of discovery. Diligently searching the Scriptures for the truths of God. Understanding the mind and will of the Lord. Appreciating His justness and righteousness enough to desire to be conformed to the image of His Son.
Christ said, "My sheep hear my voice", but how can one discern that voice from their own if they're not familiar with the voice of God in His Word?
Many say they love the Lord, but do they read and study His Word? If we are apart from a loved one and they write us a letter, do we set it on the table and forget about it, or do we read it eagerly, consuming every word?
Quote:
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
What are the consequences of this belief? For many, see the parable of the foolish virgins (Matthew 25:1-13), and the parable of the wedding banquet (Matthew 22:14).
Quote:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Our flesh fights against the things of the Lord, refusing to be conformed to the image of Christ. We are repeatedly instructed to "walk in the Spirit", that is, to become sensitive to the leadings of the Holy Spirit and allow for the renewal of our minds. This is what is necessary to be used of the Lord. This is putting on our wedding garment in preparation of that great day.
It isn't that we lack the right to His power. It is that we do not have the relationship with Him to be utilized in the exercising of that power. What Jesus did was not of His accord. Rather, He was obedient and did the will of His Father. Most aren't even faithful in praying for another.
Do you think it is because we think through salvation we have already received?
Quote:
"Easy believism" is an incomplete message. We are told that even the devils believe. The key is putting back into the message the thrill of discovery. Diligently searching the Scriptures for the truths of God. Understanding the mind and will of the Lord. Appreciating His justness and righteousness enough to desire to be conformed to the image of His Son.
yes, even Hungering and thirsting after His Righteousness.
Quote:
Christ said, "My sheep hear my voice", but how can one discern that voice from their own if they're not familiar with the voice of God in His Word?
Amen. I ask for ears that hear, and that we will all grow more sensitive to His still small voice.
Quote:
Many say they love the Lord, but do they read and study His Word? If we are apart from a loved one and they write us a letter, do we set it on the table and forget about it, or do we read it eagerly, consuming every word?
nicely put.
Quote:
What are the consequences of this belief? For many, see the parable of the foolish virgins (Matthew 25:1-13), and the parable of the wedding banquet (Matthew 22:14).
Do we think salvation is a get out of jail free card, no matter what we do?
Quote:
Our flesh fights against the things of the Lord, refusing to be conformed to the image of Christ. We are repeatedly instructed to "walk in the Spirit", that is, to become sensitive to the leadings of the Holy Spirit and allow for the renewal of our minds. This is what is necessary to be used of the Lord. This is putting on our wedding garment in preparation of that great day.
Thankyou for your insights, they are rare, and remarkable.
Do you think it is because we think through salvation we have already received?
I think it is because the church has turned back to a priestly system where the new believer is not encouraged to study and prove what is being taught.
I believe a false image of God is painted where He is tolerant of our sin and wishes to give us grandiose blessings of wealth, irrespective of our ability to cope with the flesh in the presence of wealth.
I believe that many put their faith in the fact that Christ died for the sins of the unsaved, yet have never had the reaffirmation of the Spirit that it was for THEIR sins that he died. Without that, they lack the true unadulterated joy and sense of the Lord's peace which are due them. Further, they lack the sense of obligation and willingness to obey.
Where is their guide on the path to righteousness? A Sunday sermon? False notions of the personality of Christ?
The sheep are being sent out to wander aimlessly to fall in a ditch or be consumed by wolves. More testament needs to be given to realize that there is more to be expected of the Christian walk.
My family has been involved in the ministry for generations. I could tell tales that would sicken even the most unrighteous. The lure of money has corrupted many pastors who started out uprightly. Corruption begets corruption.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
yes, even Hungering and thirsting after His Righteousness.
Much better put. That hunger only comes after the work of the Spirit begins towards the renewal of our minds, conforming us to the mind of Christ Jesus. The things of God are repugnant to the flesh. Most churches leave the new believer unaware that a transformation of their mind is to occur. They are left floundering in an unregenerate state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
Amen. I ask for ears that hear, and that we will all grow more sensitive to His still small voice.
At any one time there are three voices in our mind. One is our own, the other is the Holy Spirit, but the other are the voices originating from the demonic realm. All three sound exactly as our own. It is what they say that differentiates.
Why did Jesus give the rebuke He did to Peter in Matthew 16:23? It was because Jesus knew the origins of the thought. Not ever sinful thought is of demonic origin, but the necessity of the renewal of our minds is due both to our fallen nature as well as the influence we've had over our lives by the whispers of demons. Our own thoughts, colored by our past, can be as vile as those of devils.
Ever wonder why sexual sin alone is singled out as a sin against the body? It is because the body carries with it a memory of that sin and an insatiable hunger for it. Overcoming this too is the work of the Spirit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
Do we think salvation is a get out of jail free card, no matter what we do?
You've touched on another deficiency of the modern church, the teaching of the nature of sin and its need for cleansing. It doesn't fill pews when you attack the sinner's sin. Pricking the conscious is painful. Unless the Spirit has been awakening them, they'll head for the door.... and take their wallets with them.
We are told in the Scriptures that sin is spiritual darkness. It has a physical properties in the spiritual world. It is a pollution in the heavens and this world sends it up in heaping clouds every second of the day. It works to obscure the Light of the Lord. In that context, it becomes clearer the mercy that God has in permitting us to continue.
To remain in darkness is to remain apart from the Light of the Father. When we preach the true Gospel, that light shines into their darkness. Some it awakens through the urging of the Spirit, some it infuriates and causes them to withdraw.
But, to those who will willingly receive His Word and seek the precious Blood of Jesus to remove those sins, the spiritual darkness is removed and we begin to see the light.
The gift of salvation must be received. The receiving of it is in repentance. Our repentance must come from the proper understanding of our guilt in the presence of a righteous God. Like fear is the beginning of understanding, fearing the wrath of God is a beginning, but freedom comes when you partake with the mind of God and understanding the true injury done against a merciful and righteous Father.
The recidivism rate of our jails is quite high. You'll find very few who do not regret having been caught, but you'll find even less who accept fault and understand their actions to be against the whole of society.
Likewise, you'll find many who seek to remove their guilt through an occasional prayer, without acknowledging the serious transgressions they've made and no intention of working towards preventing another.
It's not the act which is repentance, it is the heart which seeks uprightness before God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
Thankyou for your insights, they are rare, and remarkable.
godspeed,
freedom
Make no mistake, I have led an unholy life before conversion. Any insights I may have to share come about by the things my Father has shared with me. I remain in His service, humbly acknowledging my fight against the spirit of pride and how I've failed Him in the past.
For those who seek to hear the voice of their Father, read His Word. Recognize and shut out the voices of accusation and despair, they are not of the Father. Listen for the voice which tells you that you are His and that you are loved, that is the voice of the Holy Spirit within you. He testifies that you are found worthy.
Once you begin to recognize His voice, begin your day in conversation with Him. What the Father desires most is our company. Share your thoughts, your hopes and in doing so, you will find verses brought to mind and further insights.
If you are moved to pray for an individual or situation.... move quickly! I cannot emphasize enough the importance there. This is what began my journey into a closer walk with Him. Obedience!
And so our relationship with Him begins to Grow. You will grow more hungry for His Word, you will seek more of Him than you have. This pleases our Lord greatly. Don't be afraid to ask for more. He wants to give you more. Read of the gifts of the Spirit, ask for them. Greed for the physical is sin, but overwhelming and anxious desire for the things of the Lord are rewarded richly.
I think it is because the church has turned back to a priestly system where the new believer is not encouraged to study and prove what is being taught.
I believe a false image of God is painted where He is tolerant of our sin and wishes to give us grandiose blessings of wealth, irrespective of our ability to cope with the flesh in the presence of wealth.
I believe that many put their faith in the fact that Christ died for the sins of the unsaved, yet have never had the reaffirmation of the Spirit that it was for THEIR sins that he died. Without that, they lack the true unadulterated joy and sense of the Lord's peace which are due them. Further, they lack the sense of obligation and willingness to obey.
Where is their guide on the path to righteousness? A Sunday sermon? False notions of the personality of Christ?
The sheep are being sent out to wander aimlessly to fall in a ditch or be consumed by wolves. More testament needs to be given to realize that there is more to be expected of the Christian walk.
My family has been involved in the ministry for generations. I could tell tales that would sicken even the most unrighteous. The lure of money has corrupted many pastors who started out uprightly. Corruption begets corruption.
Much better put. That hunger only comes after the work of the Spirit begins towards the renewal of our minds, conforming us to the mind of Christ Jesus. The things of God are repugnant to the flesh. Most churches leave the new believer unaware that a transformation of their mind is to occur. They are left floundering in an unregenerate state.
At any one time there are three voices in our mind. One is our own, the other is the Holy Spirit, but the other are the voices originating from the demonic realm. All three sound exactly as our own. It is what they say that differentiates.
Why did Jesus give the rebuke He did to Peter in Matthew 16:23? It was because Jesus knew the origins of the thought. Not ever sinful thought is of demonic origin, but the necessity of the renewal of our minds is due both to our fallen nature as well as the influence we've had over our lives by the whispers of demons. Our own thoughts, colored by our past, can be as vile as those of devils.
Ever wonder why sexual sin alone is singled out as a sin against the body? It is because the body carries with it a memory of that sin and an insatiable hunger for it. Overcoming this too is the work of the Spirit.
You've touched on another deficiency of the modern church, the teaching of the nature of sin and its need for cleansing. It doesn't fill pews when you attack the sinner's sin. Pricking the conscious is painful. Unless the Spirit has been awakening them, they'll head for the door.... and take their wallets with them.
We are told in the Scriptures that sin is spiritual darkness. It has a physical properties in the spiritual world. It is a pollution in the heavens and this world sends it up in heaping clouds every second of the day. It works to obscure the Light of the Lord. In that context, it becomes clearer the mercy that God has in permitting us to continue.
To remain in darkness is to remain apart from the Light of the Father. When we preach the true Gospel, that light shines into their darkness. Some it awakens through the urging of the Spirit, some it infuriates and causes them to withdraw.
But, to those who will willingly receive His Word and seek the precious Blood of Jesus to remove those sins, the spiritual darkness is removed and we begin to see the light.
The gift of salvation must be received. The receiving of it is in repentance. Our repentance must come from the proper understanding of our guilt in the presence of a righteous God. Like fear is the beginning of understanding, fearing the wrath of God is a beginning, but freedom comes when you partake with the mind of God and understanding the true injury done against a merciful and righteous Father.
The recidivism rate of our jails is quite high. You'll find very few who do not regret having been caught, but you'll find even less who accept fault and understand their actions to be against the whole of society.
Likewise, you'll find many who seek to remove their guilt through an occasional prayer, without acknowledging the serious transgressions they've made and no intention of working towards preventing another.
It's not the act which is repentance, it is the heart which seeks uprightness before God.
Make no mistake, I have led an unholy life before conversion. Any insights I may have to share come about by the things my Father has shared with me. I remain in His service, humbly acknowledging my fight against the spirit of pride and how I've failed Him in the past.
For those who seek to hear the voice of their Father, read His Word. Recognize and shut out the voices of accusation and despair, they are not of the Father. Listen for the voice which tells you that you are His and that you are loved, that is the voice of the Holy Spirit within you. He testifies that you are found worthy.
Once you begin to recognize His voice, begin your day in conversation with Him. What the Father desires most is our company. Share your thoughts, your hopes and in doing so, you will find verses brought to mind and further insights.
If you are moved to pray for an individual or situation.... move quickly! I cannot emphasize enough the importance there. This is what began my journey into a closer walk with Him. Obedience!
And so our relationship with Him begins to Grow. You will grow more hungry for His Word, you will seek more of Him than you have. This pleases our Lord greatly. Don't be afraid to ask for more. He wants to give you more. Read of the gifts of the Spirit, ask for them. Greed for the physical is sin, but overwhelming and anxious desire for the things of the Lord are rewarded richly.
Very impressive, insightful, prolific post, Scamp!!! You have the gift of the written word.....and no spelling errors either! (Not that I could see) Good grammar and a great message!! Oh, how I pray that someone listens...what you said is the complete truth. Thanks, Scamp.
Jesus said, those that believe, shall do the things He did and more.
Christianity has stood still, and not received the powers of Christ.
Which proves that we truly don't believe to the degree that gives us the right to His power.
Has the I'm Saved doctrine been the stumbling block or is it something else.
Many self professed Christians think of salvation as inheriting the kingdom of God and being with Jesus. No matter where their hearts are, or how they lived after saying a prayer and going to church.
Why are the teachings of Christ though of as not livable?
What are the consequences of this belief, if any...in your opinion?
godspeed,
freedom
All I know is that Christianity is pretty much a full time job and if you are attempting to perfect yourself you have no time to stagnate--at least that has been my experience.
Someone said, 'I earn my salvation every day.' and the same person said, 'I don't want my tombstone to read FH--He meant well.'
Christ was certainly always focused on goals, alert to those who might need to hear what He had to say.
Having read Og Mandino, C. S. Lewis and many similar books --the emphasis in Christianity is on service to others.
I don't think I have known Christians who aren't vigilant about how resources--time and $ are utilized.
The way things are in the world now each and every Christian needs to be very purposeful, jmo. The teachings of Christ are considered very livable among those of my acquaintance. 'Prosperity' comes through the efforts of the individual and Christ had some sound economic principles.
The 'consequences' of believing that Christ's teachings are livable is a well-lived life. 'Fully Functioning'.
The alternatives are socialism and ideologies that have never really worked well.
This is what I have studied over the last year. It opened my eyes to things I haven't seen before. Most of the church is preaching salvation. This is what Jesus died for. But Jesus' ministry was about bringing the kingdom of God. For he said "repent for the kingdom of God is at hand." Much of the church has built up the church not the kingdom of God. Could the Church have forgotten to preach the kingdom? Healings happen in the kingdom of God. Could people be getting saved and think that is all there is? It is written seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you. Jesus and his kingdom are inseperable, but we try to bring him to our world instead of seeking his kingdom.
This is what I have studied over the last year. It opened my eyes to things I haven't seen before. Most of the church is preaching salvation. This is what Jesus died for. But Jesus' ministry was about bringing the kingdom of God. For he said "repent for the kingdom of God is at hand." Much of the church has built up the church not the kingdom of God. Could the Church have forgotten to preach the kingdom? Healings happen in the kingdom of God. Could people be getting saved and think that is all there is? It is written seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you. Jesus and his kingdom are inseperable, but we try to bring him to our world instead of seeking his kingdom.
Great perspective, so true... I'm so pleased with all of the discussion on this thread. Thanks for you seeking "findaway"
Jesus said He was the kingdom of God. Jesus spoke of entering into the kingdom of God. Jesus said that the kingdom of God was within us.
All of these statements were correct and without conflict. In the whole, we begin to see that there is an interpenetration of the believer and the kingdom of God. There is much more to say about this, but I'm leaving town tomorrow and will have to save that for another time.
But pertinent to the discussion, you can see that we are to seek the kingdom of God. Jesus spoke to the disciples that some of them would not see death until they witnessed the coming of the kingdom of God with power. This was fulfilled in Acts with the Holy Spirit coming upon all believers. If the kingdom of God now resides within us, then it is the recognition of the living God we are to seek within our own selves. We are to seek the things of the kingdom of God to build up our temple and become a living sacrifice. So, we are back to the relationship being of utmost importance.
It isn't just some far off kingdom with a God we only read about, but the temple of the Living God residing within you, within each believer. It is the work of the Spirit to instruct, comfort and act as an advocate on our behalf. We are warned against grieving the Spirit. On this point I think we can learn from the appearance of the Holy Spirit as a dove at the baptism of Jesus. What is the nature of a dove? It is gentle and easily set to flight. It is the same when we sin and remain unrepentant, He who has sealed you unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30) is grieved and is set to flight.
Works are only profitable to the kingdom when they are directed by the Father. With our own hands they are at best hit and miss. We must learn obedience to the urging of the Spirit. If we walk out onto the street and begin to witness, well it is better than nothing at all, but, if we ask the Lord to send us someone to witness to, get ready. And even then, we may plant the seed and another may do the watering (the light is of course from the Father). We may not know the fruits of our lives until the other side, but at least we know we are doing His will.
As for riches, we know of camels and needles. Yet, it is preached in the pulpits and on the television that we are to expect this from the Father. Some give out of faith to the Father and are rewarded for their faithfulness. Some grudgingly give to get and are awarded nothing. But, some give for gain and through sheer belief in reward, receive. That is witchcraft and is exactly the same as "The Secret" craze. Belief is a powerful thing and it is possible to use one's spirit to manifest phenomenon in the physical realm.
Jesus was not wealthy. He had only what he required when He needed it. Paul continued his work as a tent maker, yet the preachers of profit would have us believe that all the martyrs had it wrong and missed out on earthly riches. Our heavenly Father knows our needs and will supply them. Hard times are to teach us to trust in Him. Some are blessed with abundance, and it is to those the greater responsibility of giving out of that abundance. If we all won the lottery we'd have a hard time finding the time for God in our lives. I'm satisfied with Psalms 37:25, "I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread."
What should be done in the church? Pastors should never handle the money. A deacon should be appointed to count the money. A pastor's pay should not come out of this money given to the church. Instead, love offerings should be taken for them and their family, a worker deserves his wages. Until the success of a sermon is counted in the edification of souls and not dollars taken in, heresy and downgrading will continue to grow and shape the church until the time in which it is judged (IPeter 4:17).
When Christ spoke of the kingdom of God he was speaking of the church. It is apparent that Christ's bride is called the 'church' on earth, and the 'kingdom' in heaven. The kingdom/church will be turned over ot God at Christ's second coming. 1st Corinthians 15:24 "then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power."
How could He deliver up something that wasn't already here?
" For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son," Colossians1:13
How could they be transferred to something that was not already here? This doesn't say "He will deliver us".
Since the Jews ( and some present day 'Christians'), were/are looking for an earthly kingdom, the church on earth is not called the kingdom. Christ's kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, not a physical one. There is great wisdom here, because He knew that many would be looking for an earthly kingdom.
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(Not that I could see) Good grammar and a great message!! Oh, how I pray that someone listens...what you said is the complete truth. Thanks, Scamp.
