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If they had truested Christ as their saviour, they would be on the other side of the door, but they were outside. What was missing? Not works, because they said they did the works. So what is the missing piece? You know the answer is salvation. They did not have Christ in their hearts. They did not carry the holy spirit, the mark of Christ, their names were not written in the book of life. They were never saved. A lot of people claim to do things in God's name, but it doesn't mean they are saved.
Could it be that they were at one time faithful to Christ and then were tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine? Perhaps they were led astray and lost their way?
To say they were never saved... that sounds as bold as some of the things i say that gets me called names on this forum.
Could it be that they were at one time faithful to Christ and then were tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine? Perhaps they were led astray and lost their way?
To say they were never saved... that sounds as bold as some of the things i say that gets me called names on this forum.
No, Jesus specifically told them He NEVER knew them. NEVER!! They were never saved.
okay... right... i got ahead of myself... you're correct.
The emphasis of what i was quoting was the "many"-- didn't address that first.... that's on me.
what i was getting at was... if "many will say to me" then "many he never knew" what about those that are left?
many isn't all. Some are separate from "Many".
To those... is it reasonable to say they they had faith and were led astray?
Jude warns of this, as does Hebrews.
sorry for jumping ahead of the point i was trying to get to... my fault.
Well, there were many outside (those who Jesus never knew) and the others were inside (those who Jesus knew). The ones on the outside had only works, but no saving faith, and the ones inside had saving faith. I don't see any other groups of people in the story.
Well, there were many outside (those who Jesus never knew) and the others were inside (those who Jesus knew). The ones on the outside had only works, but no saving faith, and the ones inside had saving faith. I don't see any other groups of people in the story.
yeah... i agree there are no others in this story.
But I was wondering in regard to Galatians chapter 5 where the early Christians were being compelled by false teaching to go back to the Law. Much the same way as we can go back to the world that we are called out of.
beginning in verse... 1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. 2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
These are not the many who never had the right heart of Christ. These are those who were once in Christ and have now been severed. And the words, "fallen from grace" have been a point of discussion with others i've talk to in the past.
yeah... i agree there are no others in this story.
But I was wondering in regard to Galatians chapter 5 where the early Christians were being compelled by false teaching to go back to the Law. Much the same way as we can go back to the world that we are called out of.
beginning in verse... 1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. 2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
These are not the many who never had the right heart of Christ. These are those who were once in Christ and have now been severed. And the words, "fallen from grace" have been a point of discussion with others i've talk to in the past.
They had not lost their salvation.
This is when Paul ripped Peter in front of the church. See Paul was with the gentiles, and ate what they ate, and Peter came to visit, but he was still going with the Jewish law and ate Jewish things. Well, during his visit he begun to eat with Paul and the gentiles and he ate their food, but as soon as the Jewist elders walked in, he got up and moved back to the Jewish table.
Why did he hurry to put himself back under the law?
He had no freedom in Christ, and still worried about what other men would say. He was still under the curse of the law.
Anyway, he is talking about faith and freedom from the law. he says For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse
================== Galatians 3 ============
Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.â€[e]11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith
This is when Paul ripped Peter in front of the church. See Paul was with the gentiles, and ate what they ate, and Peter came to visit, but he was still going with the Jewish law and ate Jewish things. Well, during his visit he begun to eat with Paul and the gentiles and he ate their food, but as soon as the Jewist elders walked in, he got up and moved back to the Jewish table.
Why did he hurry to put himself back under the law?
He had no freedom in Christ, and still worried about what other men would say. He was still under the curse of the law.
Anyway, he is talking about faith and freedom from the law. he says For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse
================== Galatians 3 ============
Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e]11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith
Yeah.. in chapter 2 he give the account of what happened when the Jews come in the picture and Peter and then others joined him in hypocrisy.
But going back to chapter one:
1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free;(Because we needed to be freed from sin- we were slaves to it) therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery(do not fall back again into your life before hearing and believing the Gospel).
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision( if you go back to attempting to be justified by Mosaic Law), Christ will be of no benefit to you(because there is only justification in Christ, an d you are rejecting him, thinking you have found a better, or more attractive way).
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law(This ain't a buffet. you can't pick and choice what you want to believe. its all or nothing. If you want to live according to Mosaic Law, then you're all in. If you want Christ then live according to the Gospel).
4 You have been severed from Christ(if salvation is IN CHRIST --2 Cor 5:19-- and if the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe, then all those who reject Christ by going back to the Law are severed from him), you who are seeking to be justified by law(something which you cannot be); you have fallen from grace(You have turned from the truth that you once held on to, you have turned from the grace of God and sought the Law for justification and salvation.)
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. (this is the opposite of severed from Christ. we are maintaining our faith and we wait. Living our Christian lives).
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything(jews and gentiles both are together-- it doesn't matter. God is no respecter of persons-- no differentiation like that matters), but faith working through love. (This is what matters. that we live our lives according to the living faith that we have through the Love of Christ and the word of God that we heard once before and believed.)
Yeah.. in chapter 2 he give the account of what happened when the Jews come in the picture and Peter and then others joined him in hypocrisy.
But going back to chapter one:
1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free;(Because we needed to be freed from sin- we were slaves to it) therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery(do not fall back again into your life before hearing and believing the Gospel).
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision( if you go back to attempting to be justified by Mosaic Law), Christ will be of no benefit to you(because there is only justification in Christ, an d you are rejecting him, thinking you have found a better, or more attractive way).
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law(This ain't a buffet. you can't pick and choice what you want to believe. its all or nothing. If you want to live according to Mosaic Law, then you're all in. If you want Christ then live according to the Gospel).
4 You have been severed from Christ(if salvation is IN CHRIST --2 Cor 5:19-- and if the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe, then all those who reject Christ by going back to the Law are severed from him), you who are seeking to be justified by law(something which you cannot be); you have fallen from grace(You have turned from the truth that you once held on to, you have turned from the grace of God and sought the Law for justification and salvation.)
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. (this is the opposite of severed from Christ. we are maintaining our faith and we wait. Living our Christian lives).
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything(jews and gentiles both are together-- it doesn't matter. God is no respecter of persons-- no differentiation like that matters), but faith working through love. (This is what matters. that we live our lives according to the living faith that we have through the Love of Christ and the word of God that we heard once before and believed.)
Gal 5:4 does not mean they had lost their salvation, only that they had lost their way. This can, and probably will happen to most believers at some time. When it happens, we need to get back on the right path again.
Gal 5:4 does not mean they had lost their salvation, only that they had lost their way. This can, and probably will happen to most believers at some time. When it happens, we need to get back on the right path again.
it happened to me for about 6 years. those were bad years.
I know that God's mercy is great and forgiveness is offered, But is that to say that someone who does not get back on the right path again is still saved?
being severed from christ?
Now, before we go any farther, i'm not saying that someone not on the path is going to hell OR heaven... that's up to God, of course. I am not in the place of God.
but if they never right their path, if they go back to the Law for justification, clearly a futile effort. if they reject Christ and are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace...
how certain of eternal salvation could they be?
Not really looking for an exact answer here, just trying to understand OSAS, if in fact you believe in that to the degree i understand it to be.
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