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Old 10-25-2011, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,914 posts, read 29,727,261 times
Reputation: 13062

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Yes Katz, I have noticed that some of what you believe is the same as what I believe. But you get off the narrow road and onto the wide road when you add to God's word the book of mormon and the articles of faith. That is why I say false religion, and I pray you will toss those things out the window and get back to the word of God only. I say it with all due respect.
I have added nothing to God's word. Mormonism has added nothing to God's word. God is the only one who has added to His word. It's when human beings start telling God that He's through talking, that He has nothing more to say and that they're not listening anyway that they run the risk of losing their way.

Quote:
Sorry Katz. I believe you are a good and sincere person, but mormonism is a false religion because they go beyond the word , and that word is what will judge you in the end, not me.
You're definitely right in that you won't be the one to judge me in the end. Maybe you ought to stop judging me here and now. You believe my religion is "false" but you don't know that. It's merely your opinion. At any rate, your opinion doesn't really count for much of anything in my book. As Mother Teresa once said, "For you see, in the end, it is between you and God. It never was between you and them anyway." In the end, maybe it will be your religion God says is "false."
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:06 AM
 
9,651 posts, read 1,171,669 times
Reputation: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Why does Jeshua not stress the 'baptized' part in His second statement?...If in fact baptism is a requirement?...
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

See, no baptism required...Strange though, Paul would tell him that if HE believed that not only HIM but his household would be saved also...Because of HIS act of Faith?...
GM Rich, (or afternoon)

Verse 32. Paul tells the story of Jesus to the jailer and the people of his house.
Verse 33. It was late at night. The jailer washed Paul and Silas'wounds. Then the jailer and all the people of his house were immersed RIGHT AWAY.

The Bible doesn't tell us that Paul preached baptism, but it is a safe bet to say he did. Why else would the jailer get baptized in the middle of the night RIGHT AWAY?

It's never a good idea to not tell the rest of the story.

Katie
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,949 posts, read 47,272,488 times
Reputation: 14761
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomtkirk View Post
In a situation where someone comes to Belief in Christ and then is killed, tragically... That's up to God, but according to my understanding, God knows our hearts.
Yes, it is up to God, but some peole here sure seem to think it is up them and on how they manage to work through the list of reqiuired works and rituals.


Quote:
He knows us better than we know ourselves. he knows whether or not that faith was a living faith (one that would grow had the tragic event not taken place), or one that was to yield no fruits (dead).
Again, you bear fruit because you are ALREADY saved. If you were not saved, you would bear nothing.

Quote:
Your example is not the norm. it is an exception and That is to be left up to God.
Yes, it is the norm, because people are saved the moment they accept Christ as their Lord and Saviour, and if they have the opportunity to perform works as a saved person, then that's great, but if not, then they are already saved. Abraham believed, and that was credited to him as righteousness. Not his works, but his belief.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,949 posts, read 47,272,488 times
Reputation: 14761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Why does Jeshua not stress the 'baptized' part in His second statement?...If in fact baptism is a requirement?...
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

See, no baptism required...Strange though, Paul would tell him that if HE believed that not only HIM but his household would be saved also...Because of HIS act of Faith?...
This is true. He was saved that very moment. He got baptized later, but even if had had not, he was still saved.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:15 AM
 
9,651 posts, read 1,171,669 times
Reputation: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I have added nothing to God's word. Mormonism has added nothing to God's word. God is the only one who has added to His word. It's when human beings start telling God that He's through talking, that He has nothing more to say and that they're not listening anyway that they run the risk of losing their way.

You're definitely right in that you won't be the one to judge me in the end. Maybe you ought to stop judging me here and now. You believe my religion is "false" but you don't know that. It's merely your opinion. At any rate, your opinion doesn't really count for much of anything in my book. As Mother Teresa once said, "For you see, in the end, it is between you and God. It never was between you and them anyway." In the end, maybe it will be your religion God says is "false."
Sorry Katz, but I'm not going to argue with you about the Mormon religion. The Bible is the complete written word and will of God. It, the Bible, makes that claim. I believe it. There's nothing more I can say on the subject so I won't. I'm sure there is a thread about this but I'm not interested in debating outside the Bible. That has to be the common ground.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,914 posts, read 29,727,261 times
Reputation: 13062
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Sorry Katz, but I'm not going to argue with you about the Mormon religion.
Well then, I suggest you not post statements to the effect that it is a false religion. Because whenever you do, I'm going to respond to them. That's all I did in this case.

Quote:
The Bible is the complete written word and will of God. It, the Bible, makes that claim. I believe it. There's nothing more I can say on the subject so I won't.
And I suppose that means I can't expect to have you cite chapter and verse where the Bible makes this claim. I guess I'm just supposed to believe you even though you can provide no evidence to support your claim.

Quote:
I'm sure there is a thread about this but I'm not interested in debating outside the Bible. That has to be the common ground.
I always use only the Bible when I am debating with my fellow Christians. I'm totally in agreement that there has to be common ground. I can support probably 98% of my beliefs as being Biblical, and the rest are so insignificant as to even bother with.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:24 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,861,394 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Mike, this exact topic is currently being discussed on Bible Examples of Faith Alone. I wondered why you didn't participate. Not that it matters because I can discuss it here just as easily.

Faith Alone = Dead Faith

Numerous Biblical examples have been provided which show people manifesting their faith in some way BEFORE they were saved. If what you have written is true, then you should be able to provide one example of someone being saved by faith alone.

It is impossible to have faith that doesn't show itself either by obedience or in some other way, depending on the context.

I am not expecting you to respond to my posts. You have made it very clear that you don't wish to debate me. You have that right, but do not expect me to not post on this thread.

Katie
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Then I wonder what the point of Jeshua's sacrifice was for?...What is the whole Law?...613 commandments of Hawyaw...One must balance Scripture with Scripture...


The primary meaning of the Hebrew word mitzvah ("commandment", Hebrew: מִצְוָה‎‎, [mitsˈva], Biblical: miṣwah; plural מִצְווֹת mitzvot [mitsˈvot], Biblical: miṣwoth; from צִוָּה ṣiwwah "command") refers to precepts and commandments as commanded by God. It is a word used in Judaism to refer to the 613 commandments given in the Torah and the seven rabbinic commandments instituted later for a total of 620. According to the teachings of Judaism, all moral laws are, or are derived from, divine commandments.
The secondary meaning of Hebrew mitzvah, as with English "commandment," refers to a moral deed performed as a religious duty. As such, the term mitzvah has also come to express an act of human kindness. The tertiary meaning of mitzvah also refers to the fulfillment of a mitzvah. - Mitzvah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is Hawyaw's Commandments, His Law...This is what one is expected to follow for Salvation...
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:49 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,861,394 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Does "not of works" include works ordained by God such as faith, repentance, confessing Jesus is Lord, immersion, love of God and neighbor?

Katie
Faith and Repentance are not works...If we exercised Faith and Repentance then we have earned our Salvation, for we made the right choice...Unless one is born from above he is unable to see the Reign of Hawyaw...So, it is Hawyaw that gives the Regeneration...It is also Hawyaw that grants repentance...So, if it is Hawyaw that grants Repentance and Repentance is a change of mind, then it is Hawyaw that grants one a change of mind and it is not of ourselves...Wow!...A light bulb just went off in my head!...Regarding the parable of the rich man and Lazarus...Not being an example of Heaven and Hell...But being an example of The Jews versus the Gentiles and the death and resurrection of Jeshua!...The Jews were a spitirtually rich people while the Gentiles were poor...Hawyaw has blinded the minds of the Jews and opened the minds of the poor...Even if one come from the dead, they would not believe, for they had Moses and the prophets...Interesting...
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:52 AM
 
9,651 posts, read 1,171,669 times
Reputation: 739
Quote:
Katzpur;21428086]And I suppose that means I can't expect to have you cite chapter and verse where the Bible makes this claim. I guess I'm just supposed to believe you even though you can provide no evidence to support your claim.
God's word thoroughly equips us Katz. We don't need anything else.

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


Quote:
I always use only the Bible when I am debating with my fellow Christians. I'm totally in agreement that there has to be common ground. I can support probably 98% of my beliefs as being Biblical, and the rest are so insignificant as to even bother with
You have told me in the past that you believe the word of God is inspired. My question to you is do you believe the Bible is mistranslated?

Katie
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:01 AM
 
9,651 posts, read 1,171,669 times
Reputation: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Faith and Repentance are not works...If we exercised Faith and Repentance then we have earned our Salvation, for we made the right choice...Unless one is born from above he is unable to see the Reign of Hawyaw...So, it is Hawyaw that gives the Regeneration...It is also Hawyaw that grants repentance...So, if it is Hawyaw that grants Repentance and Repentance is a change of mind, then it is Hawyaw that grants one a change of mind and it is not of ourselves...Wow!...A light bulb just went off in my head!...Regarding the parable of the rich man and Lazarus...Not being an example of Heaven and Hell...But being an example of The Jews versus the Gentiles and the death and resurrection of Jeshua!...The Jews were a spitirtually rich people while the Gentiles were poor...Hawyaw has blinded the minds of the Jews and opened the minds of the poor...Even if one come from the dead, they would not believe, for they had Moses and the prophets...Interesting...
Jesus, Himself, called faith a work. How can you say faith is not a work. Anything you do is a work. You just have to figure out what class of works a work belongs to. In the case of faith and repentance, both are works ordained by God. So is baptism. Man sure didn't come up with the command. Every good work was ordained by God.

Repentance is called works in Jonah 3:10

10And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not

Are you going to tell me next that declaring with your mouth that Jesus is Lord is not a work? Or are you going to say you don't have to declare it with your mouth because God can see into your heart?

I asked Katz this question. You believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. Do you also believe it is mistranslated?

Katie
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