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Yes, it is true. Works have absolutely nothing to do with the attainment of eternal life. Adding anything to faith thinking that whatever you add to faith is necessary for eternal salvation is legalism. Those who are guilty of it are enemies of grace. Those who work for salvation are simply adding to the punishment they will face in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).
Genuine faith always results in works. Faith Alone = Dead Faith
The Ninevites were saved as a result of their WORKS!
The Ninevites “believed in God” (Jonah 3:4), and because they believed, they repented.
4 Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.” 5 The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.
10And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
It wasn’t until their repentance was manifested through their WORKS that God spared them.
God didn’t spare them because they earned it. It was an act of grace. But the fact remains, had they not repented, and had God not seen their WORKS; He would have never spared them.
This is just one more example that is in opposition to the false doctrine of “salvation by faith alone.”
Katie
Faith in works is dead, as well as salvation by faith and works . The only reason you repented was because He granted it, so please do not insult the grace and kindness of God by saying repentance is your work.
That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus. Philemon 1:6
Faith becomes effective by the acknowledging of every good thing in you, works are the effect of acknowledging by faith every good thing which is in us.
Mike555;21275516]People who do not understand what James meant when he talked about faith and works in James chapter 2, think that he contradicted what Paul said concerning those things. Legalists like to use James to promote works based salvation.
Paul taught that eternal salvation is through faith alone in Christ alone. The way he showed this is by contrasting faith and works.
Ephesians 2:8 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, that no one should boast. 10] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Paul made it clear that eternal salvation is through faith alone, and not by works.
With all due respect, there are so many things wrong with your OP, I don't know where to start.
How about this? "Not as a result of works." Can you qualify "works?" Do "works" include those ordained by God? Do you lump faith, repentance, confessing Jesus is Lord before men, immersion, love of God and neighbor, and praying into the bundle?
Yes, it is true. Works have absolutely nothing to do with the attainment of eternal life. Adding anything to faith thinking that whatever you add to faith is necessary for eternal salvation is legalism. Those who are guilty of it are enemies of grace. Those who work for salvation are simply adding to the punishment they will face in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).
If what you say is true, then the Bible is full of legalists and enemies of grace.
Genuine faith always results in works.
Matthew 9:1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.â€
We're not given the details, but we know that the paralyzed man and his friends showed their faith (works).
Yes, it is true. Works have absolutely nothing to do with the attainment of eternal life. Adding anything to faith thinking that whatever you add to faith is necessary for eternal salvation is legalism. Those who are guilty of it are enemies of grace. Those who work for salvation are simply adding to the punishment they will face in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).
Then why in the world are we instructed to add things to our faith in Peter's book? What's the point... are we just jumping through hoops for God's amusement?
We are instructed to add things to our faith. patience, love, brotherly kindness, etc. I'm a legalist because i know the scriptures and understand them? Guilty as charged.
I never said that we work our way into Heaven. But we must have works. Our faith must compel us to do God's will.
If I'm a legalist, You are a minimalist.
A minimalist is someone who thinks we are saved by one thing to the exclusion of all the others.
I just created a new word meaning. do i need to copyright that or am i good?
Jesus did not go to the cross for demons. Salvation is not an option for them. Demons or fallen angels are enemies of God and have no desire to have anything to do with God.
Now, i know we are pretty new to each other... but I KNOW THAT. and that's not even what james is talking about. He's not talking about Demon Salvation by faith alone. He's talking about people who say they believe in God. James is saying ... Good for you. But the demons believe in God. There's more to it than that. the next question he asks is the one of interest:
"But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?" FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS USELESS? IT IS OF NO USE. YOU HAVE IT--- IT IS OF NO USE TO YOU. YOU CAN'T GET ANYTHING FOR IT. USELESS. --your thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
As already explained in the first post, a dead faith is simply a non-productive faith. It means that the believers spiritual life has no impact. It does not mean that he isn't saved.
see my above comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Legalism is one of Satan's strategies to keep believers off balance and worried about losing their salvation. God's policy of grace totally excludes any kind of works for salvation.
Ruh Roh, Raggie! Are you declaring that Once Saved Always Saved?
Then why in the world are we instructed to add things to our faith in Peter's book? What's the point... are we just jumping through hoops for God's amusement?
We are instructed to add things to our faith. patience, love, brotherly kindness, etc. I'm a legalist because i know the scriptures and understand them? Guilty as charged.
I never said that we work our way into Heaven. But we must have works. Our faith must compel us to do God's will.
If I'm a legalist, You are a minimalist.
A minimalist is someone who thinks we are saved by one thing to the exclusion of all the others.
I just created a new word meaning. do i need to copyright that or am i good?
How can you add,when He's already given us ALL things that pertain to life and Godliness ?.
We exercise our faith in what God as already given to us.
All that pertains to life and Godliness is already in us, we draw it out by acknowledging it in faith.
That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus. Philemon 1:6.
What right do we have by burdening a brother by quoting this AT him "What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?", if it is not a reality in your own life.
genuine faith always results in works. Faith alone = dead faith
the ninevites were saved as a result of their works!
the ninevites “believed in god†(jonah 3:4), and because they believed, they repented.
4 jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “forty more days and nineveh will be overthrown.†5 the ninevites believed god. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.
10and god saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and god repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
it wasn’t until their repentance was manifested through their works that god spared them.
god didn’t spare them because they earned it. It was an act of grace. But the fact remains, had they not repented, and had god not seen their works; he would have never spared them.
this is just one more example that is in opposition to the false doctrine of “salvation by faith alone.â€
katie
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl
with all due respect, there are so many things wrong with your op, i don't know where to start.
How about this? "not as a result of works." can you qualify "works?" do "works" include those ordained by god? Do you lump faith, repentance, confessing jesus is lord before men, immersion, love of god and neighbor, and praying into the bundle?
Katie
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl
if what you say is true, then the bible is full of legalists and enemies of grace.
genuine faith always results in works.
Matthew 9:1 jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. when jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.â€
we're not given the details, but we know that the paralyzed man and his friends showed their faith (works).
faith alone = dead faith
katie
1) Regarding works of men: Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been through faith; and that not of yourselves, it s the gift of God 9] not as a result of works, that no one should boast.
Titus 3:5 'He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.'
That eliminates any work of man.
2) Regarding the so called works of God: Some legalists in an on going effort to justify their legalism appeal to the works of God. Using your own list which you imagine to be works of God you have lumped together faith, repentance, confessing jesus is lord before men, immersion, love of god and neighbor, and praying into the bundle?
To those who appeal to the works of God, Jesus flat out said that there is but one work of God by which men must be saved.
You are making the same mistake that the Jews made when they asked Jesus what the works of God were so that they could do them. John 6:28 'They said therefore to Him, ''What shall we do that we may work the works of God?'' 29] 'Jesus answered and said to them, ''This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.''
The Jews asked about the works -erga in the Greek and is Plural. Jesus immediately corrected them and said that there is ONE work - ergon in the Greek and which is Singular.
There is but one work of God by which man may obtain eternal life, and that is to believe in Christ. Nothing can be lumped together with simply believing. Water baptism is not a work of God. Neither are any of the other things you mentioned. Repentance is a change of mind and therefore is co-terminous with faith.
Loving God, prayer, water baptism, etc... are things which belong to the spiritual life AFTER savation. They are not the means of obtaining salvation.
God sees into the heart and does not need to see overt acts to see that a person has faith or doesn't have faith. Jesus knew the thoughts of the scribes. Matthew 9:3 'And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, ''This fellow blasphemes.'' 4] And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, ''Why are you thinking evil in your hearts?
Faith, and the works which follow faith are two different things. Doing good works is not legalism. Doing works for the purpose of attaining salvation IS legalism. Those who attempt to work for their salvation are only working themselves deeper into dept.
As mentioned in the first post, dead faith simply refers to a non-productive spiritual life which has no impact. It does not mean that a believer is not saved.
Now, regarding the people of Ninevah, their repentance only delayed God's destruction of their city for about 150 years. God destroyed Ninevah in 612 B.C. Any of the people of Ninevah who actually turned to God as a result of Jonah's warning were eternally saved as a result of their faith. The destruction of the city at the time of Jonah's warning was averted due to the people heeding his warning, but in time they must have fallen into sin again, because God did destroy Ninevah as I said above, in 612 B.C.
It is the inward expression of faith in Christ which saves. Not the outward manifestion of that faith. The effect follows the cause. The cause of salvation is the inward faith in Christ. The effect is the spiritual production which follows salvation. But not every believer has spiritual production or has much spiritual production. Every believer will be evaluated at the judgment seat of Christ to be rewarded for whatever spiritual production he does have. If he has little or none, he is still saved. He simply loses reward.
Salvation is only through faith alone in Christ alone. Those who teach a works based salvation are teaching a false gospel just as Paul warned about in Galatians 1:6-10.
Then why in the world are we instructed to add things to our faith in Peter's book? What's the point... are we just jumping through hoops for God's amusement?
We are instructed to add things to our faith. patience, love, brotherly kindness, etc. I'm a legalist because i know the scriptures and understand them? Guilty as charged.
I never said that we work our way into Heaven. But we must have works. Our faith must compel us to do God's will.
If I'm a legalist, You are a minimalist.
A minimalist is someone who thinks we are saved by one thing to the exclusion of all the others.
I just created a new word meaning. do i need to copyright that or am i good?
You contradict yourself. You cannot claim that you don't believe that you must work your way to heaven and then turn around and say that you cannot be saved by one thing to the exclusion of all the others.
Jesus said that there is ONE work of God by which we must be saved. And that ONE work of God is to believe in Him (John 6:28-29).
And Paul said that salvation is by grace through faith, and NOT by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Therefore, there are no meritorious works by which man may be saved, and the ONLY non-meritorious work (of God) is to believe in Jesus Christ.
Distinquish between that which is required for eternal salvation, and that which is required to pick up your cross and follow Christ AFTER salvation. They are two different things. Every disciple of Christ is a believer, but not every believer in Christ is a disciple.
Doing good works is not legalism. But doing good works thinking that by doing so, you are earning salvation IS legalism.
Not every believer produces good works. Works which God calls 'gold, silver, and precious stones' can only be produced by the believer who is under the control of the Holy Spirit. It is actually the Holy Spirit who is producing those works. The believer who is out of fellowship through unconfessed sin can only produce works which are 'wood, hay, and stubble, and which will be burned up at the judgment seat of Christ (1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10; Romans 14:10-12). Many believers remain carnal throughout their entire life and never produce divine good - gold, silver, and precious stones. They can only produce 'wood, hay, and stubble. Those works are produced by human righteousness and are rejected by God.
The believer who never names his sins to God as per 1 John 1:9 is perpetually out of fellowship and unable to produce divine good - good works. He can only produce human good which will be burned at the judgment seat of Christ.
Any UNBELIEVER can produce human good. And the BELIEVER out of fellowship can ONLY produce human good. Therefore, what man calls good works, and what God calls good works are two different things.
Finally, good works are not the means of producing spiritual growth. They are the result of spiritual growth.
You contradict yourself. You cannot claim that you don't believe that you must work your way to heaven and then turn around and say that you cannot be saved by one thing to the exclusion of all the others.
Jesus said that there is ONE work of God by which we must be saved. And that ONE work of God is to believe in Him (John 6:28-29).
And Paul said that salvation is by grace through faith, and NOT by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Therefore, there are no meritorious works by which man may be saved, and the ONLY non-meritorious work (of God) is to believe in Jesus Christ.
Distinquish between that which is required for eternal salvation, and that which is required to pick up your cross and follow Christ AFTER salvation. They are two different things. Every disciple of Christ is a believer, but not every believer in Christ is a disciple.
Doing good works is not legalism. But doing good works thinking that by doing so, you are earning salvation IS legalism.
Not every believer produces good works. Works which God calls 'gold, silver, and precious stones' can only be produced by the believer who is under the control of the Holy Spirit. It is actually the Holy Spirit who is producing those works. The believer who is out of fellowship through unconfessed sin can only produce works which are 'wood, hay, and stubble, and which will be burned up at the judgment seat of Christ (1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10; Romans 14:10-12). Many believers remain carnal throughout their entire life and never produce divine good - gold, silver, and precious stones. They can only produce 'wood, hay, and stubble. Those works are produced by human righteousness and are rejected by God.
The believer who never names his sins to God as per 1 John 1:9 is perpetually out of fellowship and unable to produce divine good - good works. He can only produce human good which will be burned at the judgment seat of Christ.
Any UNBELIEVER can produce human good. And the BELIEVER out of fellowship can ONLY produce human good. Therefore, what man calls good works, and what God calls good works are two different things.
Finally, good works are not the means of producing spiritual growth. They are the result of spiritual growth.
Go back and read what I wrote I did not contradict myself. Perhaps you don't understand what I mean... If so, then that is up to me to clarify.
When I said that we can't work our way into Heaven... That is to say that me out in the world doing wonderful things through my life outside of Christ, then I die... Stand before God... And He says: "you have done so many wonderful things, you qualify for eternal life by default! Come on in."
We cannot work our way into heaven.
But also, if we claim God as our Lord and are saved, our faith MUST have works. A faith without works cannot save us, according to James and Jesus.
Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven. Well then who will?!?!? He that doeth the will of my father.
Your thoughts? Did that clarify?
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