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Old 10-24-2011, 04:03 PM
 
5,503 posts, read 5,539,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
EXACTLY!!!! For the life of me, I cannot understand why people think these are accurate descriptions of a loving God. If I actually thought these descriptions were accurate I would be an ATHEIST for sure...but I am thankful that this biblical God is not the God I know and am connected to.
From time to time, disturbed criminals would claim they've heard the voice of God commanding them to kill or carry out heinous deeds....
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:54 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 2,101,034 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
We have a couple of things going on. First we see men approaching houses and demanding someone inside. I would believe that in any culture where if something like that happens, it is by people who believe they have power over others. And if someone agrees to hand over who they demand, then, you have someone most likely in fear and to preserve themselves they can hand over someone they have power over.

While some focus on the sexual aspect of the story, there is a deeper current of evil at work.
I guess that it would be useless of me to tell you that the moral of that story, to the originators of it, the Jews, keeping on mind that at that time, women and children were more chattel than anything else, was that your guest, in your home, must be protected from anything and that that was just good hospitality.
Do not take my word for it. Just ask any Jew.
I think I learned this in a Harris debate.

Regards
DL
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Arizona
267 posts, read 295,262 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
What I am saying is that ignorant men wrote these books and attributed these heinous things to God...and yes, if these events are real, it was evil men doing these things, not God. Attempting to justify these atrocities and attributing them to God as somehow righteous, is foolish at best when we now know that God is PURE UNCONDITIONAL AGAPE LOVE...it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to be the megalomaniac he is portrayed to be in the OT while knowing this. Do you understand now what I am saying????????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
The point is, do you believe that God did those evils and why would you follow such a God?

Why would you not wonder why he kills when he could take the high moral ground and cure?
Same price.

Regards
DL
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
EXACTLY!!!! For the life of me, I cannot understand why people think these are accurate descriptions of a loving God. If I actually thought these descriptions were accurate I would be an ATHEIST for sure...but I am thankful that this biblical God is not the God I know and am connected to.

I think I understand now. You both have changed from saying you do not believe in the God of the OT to, you believe the OT description of God is falsified by evil men who wrote it in order to deviously declare they had God's approval?

DL, you went into a long dissertation about the God of evil, God of Good, tree of life and tree of knowledge.....now you agree that is was the Bible writers that have given us a false record? OR are you still sticking to the duality of God: both evil and good?


So, contrary to Jesus' belief and the message of the NT, you believe the OT is NOT inspired writings for us to learn from; you reject them.

What about 2 Timothy 3:16-17? Of course you know there was no collated "Bible" at this time and the ALL was inclusive of the OT.


So we just forget all that? Because of your delicate sensitivities you cannot accept the Bible is God's inspired word? So we just choose what we want and condemn the rest because it does not fit into our personal puppy dog and kittens view of God? So you must reject Revelations too; that much destruction would not fit in either.

You chose one attribute for God,Love, but what about the others? Power, Wisdom, Justice?

If you do not believe the Bible, OT or NT (because When Jesus returns it WILL BE as in Noahs day), then discussing the Bible is of little importance. (Matthew 9:36)

I do believe in the Bible, and the actions of God that you characterize as evil, I laud as righteous.

DL started this by talking about Satan's deception. I think the point is well made that you both are so decieved that you have rejected the Bible's authenticity and said if it IS true, that God is evil. I can think of no greater state of confusion, denying God's word, and declaring God's righteous authority as evil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
The point is, do you believe that God did those evils and why would you follow such a God?

Why would you not wonder why he kills when he could take the high moral ground and cure?
Same price.

Regards
DL

Since God has the power to heal and protect, you blame him for EVERY human death? All he had to do was intervine, but he did not because he is evil? Exactly ChristyGrl?
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:14 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,912,066 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
I guess that it would be useless of me to tell you that the moral of that story, to the originators of it, the Jews, keeping on mind that at that time, women and children were more chattel than anything else, was that your guest, in your home, must be protected from anything and that that was just good hospitality.
Do not take my word for it. Just ask any Jew.
I think I learned this in a Harris debate.

Regards
DL

Not useless, but the cultural aspect of what I was talking about doesn't change.

You are in fear of something if someone comes to your door wanting someone for their own self gratificating purposes and you do not run them off.

Seeing women and children as chattel certainly places the head of the household male in power over them and rather than risk any cultural backlash by driving someone away from your home, lets just practive self preservation and offer the chattel.

In any case, there was a culture that wasn't right and needed fixed, But so does our hearts and that is where I draw the analogy for my own life.

I mean no disrespect, but I certainly really don't care if a jew disagrees with the way the bible has helped me see myself for what I am.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:50 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 2,101,034 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWW1962 View Post
I think I understand now. You both have changed from saying you do not believe in the God of the OT to, you believe the OT description of God is falsified by evil men who wrote it in order to deviously declare they had God's approval?
I think C G thinks that. There may be some truth in that but not as much as she will. I will let her speak for hersel though.

Quote:
DL, you went into a long dissertation about the God of evil, God of Good, tree of life and tree of knowledge.....now you agree that is was the Bible writers that have given us a false record? OR are you still sticking to the duality of God: both evil and good?
False record? Not particularly for a myth.

We have a false Christian interpretation.
Eden for instance was man's elevation to the jews who wrote it yet somehow it became our fall at the hands of the church.

The Bible God is a myth. The Bible is a book of myths.
The way scriptures speak of this mythical God is that he is to be the epitome of all attributes. The first and the last. He is to be the best of the best and the worst of the worst.

The first commandment says not to put anyone or anything above him. The alpha position. The omega position we are told is also his.

The Bible reinforces this by saying he created evil as well as good. He wrote all of the tree of knowledge and knew of every conceivable good and evil.

The N T shows us his good side, The O T shows us his evil side.
The Bible back up that notion with these.

Nehemiah 13:18
Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city?

Jeremiah 19:15
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it,
 
Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Are they saying Satan brought the evil or God?

Whose name would you put above God’s for evil. Satan?

Count the bodies and see that God does the most killing. Not Satan.
I think C G thinks that. There may be some truth in that but not as much as she will. I will let her speak for herself though.


Quote:
So, contrary to Jesus' belief and the message of the NT, you believe the OT is NOT inspired writings for us to learn from; you reject them.
Hell no. The Bible is a book of wisdom made to be taken as a whole.
Scrap the O T and in that sense, you scrap half the tree of knowledge.
That is why the bible says to judge it with itself.

Quote:
What about 2 Timothy 3:16-17? Of course you know there was no collated "Bible" at this time and the ALL was inclusive of the OT.
Then how did it get in there? In looking at it, I would say it suits and is true if you read the Bible as the tree of knowledge. If you do not then it does not and means nothing because man cannot be perfected without the knowledge of good and evil and if you do not see the evil of the O T then you are just left with half the tree of knowledge and cannot be perfected.

I have claimed to have forced my apotheosis. Guess what I used to learn and think. The Bible, as well as other books of wisdom. I found the Godhead but not the mythical bible God. That is why I respect it and do not like those who are too stupid to read it the right way. Ii do not blame them directly. I blame the church. I blame those who read this and do not see it.

Quote:
So we just forget all that?
No. See above.
Quote:
Because of your delicate sensitivities you cannot accept the Bible is God's inspired word?
Sure beats love for genocidal maniacs.
Sure inspired. Have you noticed that your inspired book begins with a talking snake and ends with a seven headed monster. Sure inspired like Mother Goose was. For a myth.


Quote:
So we just choose what we want and condemn the rest because it does not fit into our personal puppy dog and kittens view of God? So you must reject Revelations too; that much destruction would not fit in either.
Do you believe in real seven headed monsters or that God would have to keep rebooting his perfect works. Oh what faith you have.

As to cherry picking, how often have you heard a priest, any priest or preacher speak of stoning unruly children or the local whores.

Quote:
You chose one attribute for God,Love, but what about the others? Power, Wisdom, Justice?
Same thing. The first and the last.
He is wise, he is stupid.
The greatest love, the greatest hate.
The most merciful and the most merciless.

Read the Gnostic gospel. Thunder perfect mind.

Quote:
If you do not believe the Bible, OT or NT (because When Jesus returns it WILL BE as in Noahs day), then discussing the Bible is of little importance. (Matthew 9:36)
Jesus is an archetype and the kingdom of God is always, as he said, at hand. How could it not be if as Jesus said, our bodies are the temple of God. If you live, God lives within you and his kingdom is where you are. have ye forgotten that ye are Gods. Jesus' words.

Quote:
I do believe in the Bible, and the actions of God that you characterize as evil, I laud as righteous.
Yet modern scholars do not. Continue to live in the past and believe in talking donkeys.
Not too bright of you.

Quote:
DL started this by talking about Satan's deception. I think the point is well made that you both are so decieved that you have rejected the Bible's authenticity and said if it IS true, that God is evil. I can think of no greater state of confusion, denying God's word, and declaring God's righteous authority as evil.
Hitler and his friends will agree with you. Genocide was their thing as well.
You are in good company eh.
Who be fooled?

Quote:
Since God has the power to heal and protect, you blame him for EVERY human death? All he had to do was intervine, but he did not because he is evil? Exactly ChristyGrl?
Healers heal, murderers murder.

What did your God do to the children and innocent babies of Noah's day again?

Evil is as evil does.

Regards
DL
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 6,186,318 times
Reputation: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
From time to time, disturbed criminals would claim they've heard the voice of God commanding them to kill or carry out heinous deeds....
EXACTLY...so, if the people of the OT thought they heard God telling them to do these heinous things, we can only deduce that they were schizophrenic or psychotic. Anyone attempting to justify these types of behaviors and call it good or "righteous" needs to have their head examined for their cheese may be slipping off of their bread.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 6,186,318 times
Reputation: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWW1962 View Post
I think I understand now. You both have changed from saying you do not believe in the God of the OT to, you believe the OT description of God is falsified by evil men who wrote it in order to deviously declare they had God's approval?

DL, you went into a long dissertation about the God of evil, God of Good, tree of life and tree of knowledge.....now you agree that is was the Bible writers that have given us a false record? OR are you still sticking to the duality of God: both evil and good?


So, contrary to Jesus' belief and the message of the NT, you believe the OT is NOT inspired writings for us to learn from; you reject them.

What about 2 Timothy 3:16-17? Of course you know there was no collated "Bible" at this time and the ALL was inclusive of the OT.


So we just forget all that? Because of your delicate sensitivities you cannot accept the Bible is God's inspired word? So we just choose what we want and condemn the rest because it does not fit into our personal puppy dog and kittens view of God? So you must reject Revelations too; that much destruction would not fit in either.

You chose one attribute for God,Love, but what about the others? Power, Wisdom, Justice?

If you do not believe the Bible, OT or NT (because When Jesus returns it WILL BE as in Noahs day), then discussing the Bible is of little importance. (Matthew 9:36)

I do believe in the Bible, and the actions of God that you characterize as evil, I laud as righteous.

DL started this by talking about Satan's deception. I think the point is well made that you both are so decieved that you have rejected the Bible's authenticity and said if it IS true, that God is evil. I can think of no greater state of confusion, denying God's word, and declaring God's righteous authority as evil.




Since God has the power to heal and protect, you blame him for EVERY human death? All he had to do was intervine, but he did not because he is evil? Exactly ChristyGrl?
WRONGORAMA...God IS NOT EVIL...never has been, never will be. It is men who are EVIL/SATAN...always have been, always will be until one gets control of and subdues their evilness/carnalness/sataness. Just because someone writes a book and attributes EVIL and HEINOUS things to God, this does not make it true and anyone having a true connection to God would KNOW that because it is impossible for God to be any of these things...IMPOSSIBLE!!!!! So yes, I take what I read with a grain of salt and mine through the man made minutia contained in all scriptures...for there is plenty of it. Anything written that goes against the GOD OF PURE UNCONDITIONAL AGAPE LOVE...can be completely discarded and one can rightly conclude they are additions by ignorant men...whether they had an agenda (which more than likely they did) or not is irrelevant at this point.

If you want to connect to the REAL GOD...then deny self (your egoic/carnal self) and go WITHIN yourself as Jesus instructed and quit attempting to reconcile who and what God is by reading a man made book, most of which was written by ignorant, uninspired and unenlightened men.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:08 AM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,381,890 times
Reputation: 182
There is nowhere to go within to if God hasn't put His Spirit inside you. He only gives His Spirit to those who believe in His Son, the crucified, dead and risen Jesus.

God attributes are noted in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. If someone has a problem with either of His testaments, then take it up with God.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 6,186,318 times
Reputation: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
There is nowhere to go within to if God hasn't put His Spirit inside you. He only gives His Spirit to those who believe in His Son, the crucified, dead and risen Jesus.

God attributes are noted in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. If someone has a problem with either of His testaments, then take it up with God.
You couldn't be more misled. You can lead a person to knowledge but you can't make them learn.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:33 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 2,101,034 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
There is nowhere to go within to if God hasn't put His Spirit inside you. He only gives His Spirit to those who believe in His Son, the crucified, dead and risen Jesus.

God attributes are noted in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. If someone has a problem with either of His testaments, then take it up with God.
Let's see if you have the intelligence to recognize when you are wrong on two counts.

I will not say a word.

CTV Edmonton - Babies may know good from evil: new study - CTV News


The meaningless death of Jesus - YouTube

Regards
DL
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