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Is it possible that people obey the commands of Jesus because they love Him? Is it possible that people obey the commands of Jesus because they believe and trust in His promises (Hebrews 5:9, Acts 5:32)
For me, when I first came to believe, all I wanted to do was please God by doing whatever He asked me to do. Is that wrong?
Katie
No, it is not wrong and you can not be judged by anyone. No one can judge you whether you are motivated by Gods love or a desire to be justified or any other motivation. That was the point of the post. You go girl!!!
No, it is not wrong and you can not be judged by anyone. No one can judge you whether you are motivated by Gods love or a desire to be justified or any other motivation. That was the point of the post. You go girl!!!
Gary, do you believe we have to be baptized to be saved? To have our sins washed away? Do you see baptism as a work done to earn salvation?
No, I don't believe it is wrong, at all. But I think we need to be careful with thinking that it in any way precedes salvation.
Ohhh, it preceded salvation all right!
Paul was baptized to have his sins washed away. Sin separates us from God, so Paul couldn't possibly have been saved until his sins were washed away.
But I see we digress. Have you found an example of someone from the Bible who was saved by faith alone, without works? No one seems to be able to provide an example.
.....so Paul couldn't possibly have been saved until his sins were washed away.
Have you found an example of someone from the Bible who was saved by faith alone, without works? No one seems to be able to provide an example.
Katie
I gave you an example in another post with no response. Here it is again:
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Paul unequivocally states he was "saved" (past tense) in Christ before the world began. No faith on Paul's part, no works on Paul's part, no baptism and no confession are attributed to Paul's being saved. Not one thing was contributed by Paul to his being "saved". In this particular instance, the term "saved" is being used as an exclusive act of God upon the Apostle Paul (or rather "us") without Paul's knowledge, approval or interaction therewith. And it happened before the world began.
And, Paul states that this "power of God" (2 Tim 1:8) "who saved us" was "made manifest" by the appearing of Jesus through the Gospel:
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
The Greek word that we translate as "manifest" is φανερόω and simply means to make known, make visible and to make apparent. It should be obvious to anyone reading this that something can not be "made manifest" unless it already exists, albeit previously hidden or unknown to the one it is being made manifest to.
Do you believe what Paul wrote here, and can you reconcile these scriptures with your doctrine that states Paul "couldn't possibly have been saved" (to quote you) until being baptized?
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 10-26-2011 at 10:37 PM..
I gave you an example in another post with no response. Here it is again:
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Paul unequivocally states he was "saved" (past tense) in Christ before the world began. No faith on Paul's part, no works on Paul's part, no baptism and no confession are attributed to Paul's being saved. Not one thing was contributed by Paul to his being "saved". In this particular instance, the term "saved" is being used as an exclusive act of God upon the Apostle Paul (or rather "us") without Paul's knowledge, approval or interaction therewith. And it happened before the world began.
And, Paul states that this "power of God" (2 Tim 1:8) "who saved us" was "made manifest" by the appearing of Jesus through the Gospel:
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
The Greek word that we translate as "manifest" is φανερόω and simply means to make known, make visible and to make apparent. It should be obvious to anyone reading this that something can not be "made manifest" unless it already exists, albeit previously hidden or unknown to the one it is being made manifest to.
Do you believe what Paul wrote here, and can you reconcile these scriptures with your doctrine that states Paul "couldn't possibly have been saved" (to quote you) until being baptized?
I am not interested in debating calvinism. You believe in unconditional election; I do not. End of discussion!
Where does the Bible teach that water baptism is required in order to have one's sins forgiven? Every time the phrase "for the remission of sins" occurs it is speaking of the fact that sinshave been forgiven previously! The Bible plainly teaches that the forgiveness of sins is conditioned upon repentanceof sin and faith in Christ - never upon water baptism! (Matthew 3:11; Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; Acts 5:31; Acts 10:43; Acts 20:21; Romans 1:16; Romans 4:5)
So, how do you explain Matthew 26:28? Is Jesus saying His blood was shed because "of the fact that sins have been forgiven previously"? I don't think so.
Also, apparently you don't believe that we are saved by faith alone since "forgiveness of sins is conditioned upon repentance of sin and faith in Christ. That's a step in the right direction -- away from the false teaching that we are saved by faith alone.
I am not interested in debating calvinism. You believe in unconditional election; I do not. End of discussion!
Katie
I've only given you scripture to consider, not Calvinism. I take it that your response is that you really don't believe what Paul wrote concerning being "saved", in Christ, before the world began. Right?
Here is something else for you to chew on this morning...lol:
Col 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Do you see that? Everything is IN Christ already. We were all, including Paul, created in Jesus and for Jesus. We all live, move and have our being IN Christ.
I've only given you scripture to consider, not Calvinism. I take it that your response is that you really don't believe what Paul wrote concerning being "saved", in Christ, before the world began. Right?
Here is something else for you to chew on this morning...lol:
Col 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Do you see that? Everything is IN Christ already. We were all, including Paul, created in Jesus and for Jesus. We all live, move and have our being IN Christ.
Excellent post, Alabama!Looking for how to be among the special "saved" is a corruption of the Good News. Christ saved us ALL. We did and have nothing to do with it. Our sanctification and maturation of Spirit is our responsibility through "love of God and each other."
I've only given you scripture to consider, not Calvinism. I take it that your response is that you really don't believe what Paul wrote concerning being "saved", in Christ, before the world began. Right?
Here is something else for you to chew on this morning...lol:
Col 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Do you see that? Everything is IN Christ already. We were all, including Paul, created in Jesus and for Jesus. We all live, move and have our being IN Christ.
I don't think it was your fault. I have no idea what happened. But I know you didn't do it intentionally.
You asked me what grace was in an earlier post on this page. My answer is that is it an unearned favor. It's a free gift of God.
I do not for one minute believe faith, repentance, confession and baptism are things done to earn grace.
Faith, repentance, confession and baptism are works ordained by God, created by God for us to do. They are not included in "apart from works."
I asked you this same question in another thread. I believe you would agree that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Do you believe that the known and accepted translations we have today (KJV, NASV, etc.) are mistranslated?
Katie
For me Grace is unmerited favor and if it says that we are saved BY Faith THROUGH Grace, that tells me that our Faith is given to us by Hawyaw through His Grace...And if we are unable to desire Hawyaw without His regeneration of our spirits then I see that Faith is not of our own doing it is of Hawyaw's choosing...So, I am even more grateful For the Faith that Hawyaw has given me knowing that it is not my own, that I would not have Faith if Hawyaw hadn't chose to regenerate my spirit through His Grace and save me by His Faith...
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Looking for how to be among the special "saved" is a corruption of the Good News. Christ saved us ALL. We did and have nothing to do with it. Our sanctification and maturation of Spirit is our responsibility through "love of God and each other."
