You Can Live Forever in Paradise Only if You are a Jehovah's Witness (Epistles, woman)

[BWW1962]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

[SIZE=3][SIZE=3]εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

In beginning is the word and the word is by the side of the God and God is the word.

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Theos is not capitalized...Could you be a little more specific regarding what you are asking?...

Correct, theos is not capitalized, nor is logos, and yet you capitalize God, and not word, why is that?

[Verna Perry]

Originally Posted by BWW1962

People can earnestly believe anything that they can imagine. When you have men working for hundred of years to interweave various and asundry philosophies and beliefs into a complex set of ideas, which in the end can't really be explained, then you have the mystery of the trinity doctrine. Everyone loves a mystery.

On the other hand you have people that believe the Bible, and the Bible alone, provides the information to pattern their beliefs after. These are the ones for which there is no mystery because the Bible has provided the clear message.

The only Christians that rely on the Bible alone and have filtered out the doctrines of men that have been grafted onto Christian beliefs throughout history are the Jehovah's Witnesses.

This is why they identify themselves as the only true worshipers of God.

Good Morning my friend

People can earnestly believe anything that they can imagine. When you have men working for hundred of years to interweave various and asundry philosophies and beleifs into a complex set of ideas, which in the end can't really be explained, then you have the mystery of the trinity doctrine. Everyone loves a mystery.


On the other hand you have people that believe the Bible, and the Bible alone, provides the information to pattern their beliefs after. These are the ones for which there is no mystery because the Bible has provided the clear message.


The only true faithful seekers of Christ that rely on the Bible alone and have filtered out the doctrines and traditions of men that have been grafted as a Wild Olive Branch onto the Olive Tree throughout history are those who love God. God says that if you love Him, keep His commandments...and He says that those who say they know Him and keepeth not His commandments are a liar and the truth is not in them...and God says if you will have life, keep His commandments...and God says that one of the only differences in the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is that instead of it being written upon paper, it is written upon the heart...same commandments...same precepts...same law.


This is why they can, honestly identify themselves as the only true worshipers of God.

So....do Jehovah Witnesses observe the seventh day sabbath of the LORD God...do they keep it holy unto God...and do no work or trade on that day ?....the 4th commandment in which God commands us to REMEMBER as Jews and Gentiles alike...being grafted together as "Spiritual Israel" ?...the true family of God...?


Love in Christ Jesus,
Verna.

[BWW1962]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

It states 144,000 jewish male virgins, 12,000 from each tribe of Israel...And originally, they were not called christians...they were called 'Followers of the Way'...

LOL! Jewish male virgins?

Trinitarians can interpret an entire doctrine from their percieved inferences of a few words in a verse, however these verses, amidst all the symbolism in Revelations nonetheless, they think these verses are literal and explicit. LOL!

[funymann]

You know what cracks me up??

That all the founded things that were started are now challenged to a high degree.

Living in sin ~now~ Living together

Gay ~now~ alternative lifestyle

Pluto ~now~ not a planet but just gas

[beeveenh]

Originally Posted by funymann

You know what cracks me up??

That all the founded things that were started are now challenged to a high degree.

Living in sin ~now~ Living together

Gay ~now~ alternative lifestyle

Pluto ~now~ not a planet but just gas

I'm sure it's not the first time it was..."just gas"!

[antredd]

Originally Posted by funymann

You know what cracks me up??

That all the founded things that were started are now challenged to a high degree.

Living in sin ~now~ Living together

Gay ~now~ alternative lifestyle

Pluto ~now~ not a planet but just gas

Well people have to feel good about their sins. No one wants to go to a church and hear a minister talk about how living in sin is wrong, how having gay sex is a sin, and how getting druck and smoking weed are sins as well. People want to feel good, and their ears are itching for false doctrine that allows them to do what ever they want because after all God is merciful, forgiving, and loving. So let's love everyone, do what ever want, and just make love and not war. Get it!!!!

[beeveenh]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

So....do Jehovah Witnesses observe the seventh day sabbath of the LORD God...do they keep it holy unto God...and do no work or trade on that day ?....the 4th commandment in which God commands us to REMEMBER as Jews and Gentiles alike...being grafted together as "Spiritual Israel" ?...the true family of God...?

Love in Christ Jesus,
Verna.

Hi Verna...
Observing the sabbath is something that is up to each individual Christian to decide. The establishment of the Christian congregation must have been a delicate process...making adjustments from the former ways, to the new. Observing the sabbath was one of many things that needed to be examined.

Under Jewish Law they were commanded to observe certain festivals and the sabbath. There are several scriptures that indicate that the Christian congregation was not under that Law. Romans 7:6,7: Romans 10:4, Ephesians 2:15.

That does not mean that the Law should be forgotten, or destroyed...it served its purpose when Jesus fulfilled it. Much like a builder who has a contract to work to completion- once the job is done, he's not under obligation anymore. Also, like a nation that may adopt a new constitution. Many principles may carry over from the old to the new...but specific laws may be adjusted.

Jesus said at Matthew 22:36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."
And it says at Galations 3:23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian;

So for example...a student who goes to school to learn a trade/subject/skill. While at school they are under a particular schedule and particular requirements. Upon graduation though, the student must now apply the skills they aquired in every aspect of life...no matter what day.

It seems that during the adjustment from the former Jewish system, to the Christian congregation some people were still keeping certain festivals and the sabbath, while others felt it was okay to stop observing them. Many people use the scripture at Colossians 2 to justify celebrating pagan holidays, but it was specifically referring to the Jewish festivals and sabbath, whether or not to continue to observe...
Colossians 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. 17 These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Then here in Romans...

Romans 14:5 One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. He also who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while he who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

The scriptures seem to indicate that when it comes to the keeping the sabbath...it's not a requirement...but instead up to each individual. To me, I find keeping the principles of the "Law" written on my heart...practicing them every day and in every situation is more difficult than setting aside one day. IMHO

[Verna Perry]

Originally Posted by beeveenh

Hi Verna...
Observing the sabbath is something that is up to each individual Christian to decide. The establishment of the Christian congregation must have been a delicate process...making adjustments from the former ways, to the new. Observing the sabbath was one of many things that needed to be examined.

Under Jewish Law they were commanded to observe certain festivals and the sabbath. There are several scriptures that indicate that the Christian congregation was not under that Law. Romans 7:6,7: Romans 10:4, Ephesians 2:15.

That does not mean that the Law should be forgotten, or destroyed...it served its purpose when Jesus fulfilled it. Much like a builder who has a contract to work to completion- once the job is done, he's not under obligation anymore. Also, like a nation that may adopt a new constitution. Many principles may carry over from the old to the new...but specific laws may be adjusted.

Jesus said at Matthew 22:36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."
And it says at Galations 3:23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian;

So for example...a student who goes to school to learn a trade/subject/skill. While at school they are under a particular schedule and particular requirements. Upon graduation though, the student must now apply the skills they aquired in every aspect of life...no matter what day.

It seems that during the adjustment from the former Jewish system, to the Christian congregation some people were still keeping certain festivals and the sabbath, while others felt it was okay to stop observing them. Many people use the scripture at Colossians 2 to justify celebrating pagan holidays, but it was specifically referring to the Jewish festivals and sabbath, whether or not to continue to observe...
Colossians 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. 17 These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Then here in Romans...

Romans 14:5 One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. He also who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while he who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

The scriptures seem to indicate that when it comes to the keeping the sabbath...it's not a requirement...but instead up to each individual. To me, I find keeping the principles of the "Law" written on my heart...practicing them every day and in every situation is more difficult than setting aside one day. IMHO

Thank you beeveenh for your honest opinion, however contrary to the truth of the word of God it is.

COLOSSIANS 2:16

Whenever the question of the Sabbath is discussed, those who do not keep it holy will inevitably appeal to Colossians 2:16 as their authority for disobeying the fourth commandment of God.

What exactly did Paul mean when he wrote:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:" (KJV)

Yes, when Paul said "Sabbaths" he meant the seventh day Sabbath - but that does not mean that Paul was canceling the requirement for obedience to a commandment of God. What God has commanded only God can set aside. One may search the New Testament for a thousand years and he will not find a single verse that says God has abrogated one "jot or tittle" of His fourth commandment.

What then was Paul talking about when he said to let no man judge you in respect of Sabbaths? When we look at this verse in its context it soon becomes apparent that Paul was warning about the "Colossian Heresy" which was another gospel based on asceticism and the worship of angels in order to gain assistance from cosmic powers. The essence of this heresy was that Christ alone was not sufficient to deliver us from our slavery to sin.

As you will see from the following verses, Paul was warning against three things that were being added to the gospel.

1. Traditions of men.

2. The worship of angels.

3. Submitting to doctrines of men.

COL 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

COL 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:

COL 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

COL 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using AFTER THE COMMANDMENTS AND DOCTRINES OF MEN?

KEEPING THE SABBATH DAY HOLY IS NOT A DOCTRINE OF MEN!

Paul was not doing away with God's commandment; he was warning against the false teachers who were saying that if believers did not eat and drink the right food and keep the festivals, new moons and Sabbaths ACCORDING TO CERTAIN HUMAN REGULATIONS they would lose their reward.

According to verse 23 below, they were teaching that without these ascetic regulations one could not overcome the flesh:

COL 2:23 These [DOCTRINES OF MEN] have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh. (RSV)

One commentator summed up these verses by saying:

"We conclude then that in verse 16, the warning is not against the Sabbath, festivals and dietary laws as such, but rather against those who promote these practices as indispensable aids to Christian perfection and as needed protection from the 'elements [evil spiritual forces] of the
world' thus denying the all sufficiency of Christ."

(Samuele Bacchiocchi, From Sabbath To Sunday)

Now really, doesn't that explanation make a lot more sense than the notion that Christians are no longer required to obey the fourth commandment? It is a true saying that: "The commandment is not nullified by the condemnation of its abuse."

The question we need to ask is this: "Was Paul condemning the Sabbath day, or was he CONDEMNING THE DOCTRINES OF MEN who added ritualistic and ascetic restrictions to faith in Christ?"

In order to answer that dispute, one must look at the broad picture. There is not a single verse in the New Testament which states that Paul taught a new doctrine that canceled the Sabbath commandment; nor is there any
record of a controversy between the Jews and Gentile Christians over Sabbath-keeping. If Paul had been teaching that the Sabbath commandment had been repealed, it would have split the church wide open and he would have had to answer the objections continuously in his epistles.

Think about it - if the Jewish believers made such a fuss about circumcision being optional, imagine what they would have said about the Sabbath day being revoked.

At some point we must use common sense and reason to interpret what has been written. For example, does "Let no man judge you in meat and drink..." mean that Christians can be drunkards? Of course not, because you know that God's word forbids drunkenness. Well, it also forbids Sabbath-breaking!

It is only logical to assume that if God was going to cancel one of His commandments, he would make that fact very clear. Surely, if someone said to you: "Let no man judge you in respect of murder or adultery" you would not assume that God had changed His mind about those sins without solid proof. Certainly, you would demand more evidence than one lonely verse in the book of Colossians...or would you?



In God's Truth...Christ,
Verna.

[MysticPhD]

Colossians 2 was a complete repudiation of the OT thinking of obedience to commandments under fear of God. The OT prohibitions were mere shadows of what was to come as they prepared us for self-control under love instead of fear. Their purpose was to increase our species ability for self-control to the point where it could be invoked out of love instead of selfish fear of consequence. Christ epitomized this love and revealed the true nature of God and the Good News that we need only "Love God and each other." The obedience regime was superseded by the love regime . . . but too many simply did not understand it nor could they accept it . . . even today. It is very sad.

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by BWW1962

Correct, theos is not capitalized, nor is logos, and yet you capitalize God, and not word, why is that?

That is personal to show respect for Hawyaw...I usually cap the Word...I missed it somehow...If you are referring to the Greek...There were not lower case letters back then, only upper case Greek letters, lower case greek letters did not come into play until the middle ages...