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View Poll Results: HAVE OUR COMMONLY KNOWN, AND ACCEPTED ENGLISH BIBLE TRANSLATIONS BEEN MISTRANSLATED?
THE BIBLE IS UNERRING. 13 22.03%
THE BIBLE HAS BEEN MISTRANSLATED. 46 77.97%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-02-2011, 09:46 AM
 
12,550 posts, read 6,331,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No pneuma. Jeremiah did not say that the lying Scribes added to the law. Jeremiah said that the lying Scribes were deceiving the Jews into believing that there would be peace, when in fact God was about to punish them for their disobedience. The lie of the Scribes was that there was peace, when there was no peace. It has nothing whatsoever to do with adding to the Mosiac law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Sorry Mike but that is not what the scriptures say at all.

Also I showed where Jesus contradicts some of those ADDED laws by the scribes.

Feel free to believe the lying pen of the scribes if you wish, I'll believe Jesus.
That is exactly what it says.

Jeremiah 8:8 speaks of the lying pen of the scribes. Verse 11 explains verse 8.

Jer 8:11 ''And they heal the brokenness of the daughter of My People superficially, Saying, 'Peace, peace,' But there is no peace.

The book of Jeremiah concerns the impending discipline which is about to come on Jerusalem. But there were false prophets who were denying that judgment was about to come.

Jeremiah 14:13 ' But, ''Ah, Lord GOD!'' I said, ''Look, the prophets are telling them, 'You will not see the sword nor will you have famine, but I will give you lasting peace in this place.' '' 14] Then the Lord said to me, ''The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesyng to you a false vision, divination, futility and deception of their own minds. 15] ''Therefore thus says the LORD concerning the prophets who are prophesying in My name, although it was not I who sent them, yet they keep saying, 'There shall be no sword or famine in this land--by sword and famine those prophets shall meet their end!

The lying pen of the scribes was that there was no coming judgment, and that the Jews would have peace.

You need to read the entire book of Jeremiah. It has nothing whatsoever to do with altering the Scriptures or adding to the Mosiac Law.
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,031 posts, read 1,499,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
That is exactly what it says.

Jeremiah 8:8 speaks of the lying pen of the scribes. Verse 11 explains verse 8.

Jer 8:11 ''And they heal the brokenness of the daughter of My People superficially, Saying, 'Peace, peace,' But there is no peace.

The book of Jeremiah concerns the impending discipline which is about to come on Jerusalem. But there were false prophets who were denying that judgment was about to come.

Jeremiah 14:13 ' But, ''Ah, Lord GOD!'' I said, ''Look, the prophets are telling them, 'You will not see the sword nor will you have famine, but I will give you lasting peace in this place.' '' 14] Then the Lord said to me, ''The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesyng to you a false vision, divination, futility and deception of their own minds. 15] ''Therefore thus says the LORD concerning the prophets who are prophesying in My name, although it was not I who sent them, yet they keep saying, 'There shall be no sword or famine in this land--by sword and famine those prophets shall meet their end!

The lying pen of the scribes was that there was no coming judgment, and that the Jews would have peace.

You need to read the entire book of Jeremiah. It has nothing whatsoever to do with altering the Scriptures or adding to the Mosiac Law.


Sorry Mike, but as you can see , Clark and Gill both disagree with you
Plus we have the warnings and Jesus contradictions

But as I said feel free to believe the lying pen of the scribes, you have been shown, but rejected the word of the Lord.

8How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
9The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

What word of the Lord did they reject?

Deuteronomy 4:2
King James Version (KJV)
2Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.


Deuteronomy 12:32
King James Version (KJV)
32What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5-6
5Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Revelation 22:18-19
King James Version (KJV)
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

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Old 11-02-2011, 10:06 AM
 
12,550 posts, read 6,331,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Sorry Mike, but as you can see , Clark and Gill both disagree with you
Plus we have the warnings and Jesus contradictions

But as I said feel free to believe the lying pen of the scribes, you have been shown, but rejected the word of the Lord.

8How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
9The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

What word of the Lord did they reject?

Deuteronomy 4:2
King James Version (KJV)
2Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.


Deuteronomy 12:32
King James Version (KJV)
32What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5-6
5Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Revelation 22:18-19
King James Version (KJV)
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
I don't care what Clarke and Gill said about it. I just showed you what the Scriptures say about it. It cannot be more clear. You can keep your eyes shut if you wish, or you can open them and read with comprehension what the book of Jeremiah is about. That is your choice.

See post #123.

Last edited by Mike555; 11-02-2011 at 11:12 AM..
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:09 AM
 
10,164 posts, read 4,710,913 times
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Are Bibles mistranslated? Yes. Just look up the word psukikos and psuki for soulish and soul. Or if you have a Strongs Exhaustive Concordance look up the words "natural" and "sensual" which are translations of "psukikos" (soulish) and look up how psuki was translated:

heart 2x
life 40x
mind 3x
soul 58x

In the Concordant literal these words are always translated "soul" and "soulish."
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,031 posts, read 1,499,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I don't care what Clarke and Gill said about it. I just showed you what the Scriptures say about it. It cannot be more clear. You can keep your eyes shut if you wish, or you can open them and read with comprehension what the book of Jeremiah is about. That is your choice.

See post #123.

this from someone who posts, post after post of what commentators say about the scriptures and when someone's else does it you all of a sudden do not care what they have to say. A little hypocritical of you don't you think.

I suppose then you also don't care what the WORD of God says about those addition either as He contradicted those additions and exposed there falsehood.

And your understanding of the scripture is in error. Verse 9 gives us the answer not verse 11

8How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
9The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

What I find ironic is that so many people believe the scribes could not have done what Jeremiah says they did, especially when we see what Jesus says about the scribes, and the warnings given in scriptures.

If ya don't believe the scriptures at least look at the nature of the scribes recorded in scripture and that should tell you something. And these are the people you put your trust in, go figure.

Here is an example of the scribes deleting scripture that clearly pointed to Jesus being the Messiah.

23And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

This prophesy is not found anywhere in the OT. Why? Where did it go.

Justin Martyr tells us that the lying pen of the scribes deleted scripture that clearly showed Jesus was the Messiah.

That this scripture is not found anywhere in the OT tells us Justin Martyr was telling us the truth, that the scribes deleted scripture.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:23 PM
 
12,550 posts, read 6,331,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
this from someone who posts, post after post of what commentators say about the scriptures and when someone's else does it you all of a sudden do not care what they have to say. A little hypocritical of you don't you think.

I suppose then you also don't care what the WORD of God says about those addition either as He contradicted those additions and exposed there falsehood.

And your understanding of the scripture is in error. Verse 9 gives us the answer not verse 11

8How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
9The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

What I find ironic is that so many people believe the scribes could not have done what Jeremiah says they did, especially when we see what Jesus says about the scribes, and the warnings given in scriptures.

If ya don't believe the scriptures at least look at the nature of the scribes recorded in scripture and that should tell you something. And these are the people you put your trust in, go figure.

Here is an example of the scribes deleting scripture that clearly pointed to Jesus being the Messiah.

23And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

This prophesy is not found anywhere in the OT. Why? Where did it go.

Justin Martyr tells us that the lying pen of the scribes deleted scripture that clearly showed Jesus was the Messiah.

That this scripture is not found anywhere in the OT tells us Justin Martyr was telling us the truth, that the scribes deleted scripture.
Verse 11 of Jeremiah 8 gives the answer. As does the context of the rest of Jeremiah.

You are taking Jeremiah out of its context.

Look at the context. Jeremiah 8:11 is explained only three verses later. I showed you Jeremiah 14:13-15 which further explains it. If commentary on the matter is what you want then here is what Matthew Henry said about Jeremiah 8.

Jeremiah 8 Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

As for Matthew 2:24, Matthew spoke of prophets, not one particuliar prophet. This indicates that Matthew was not referring to a specific prophecy, but to a number of prophecies concerning the Messiah's despised character (Psalms 22:6 and Isa 53:3 for example). Being called a Nazarene was a term of contempt. There are different views on what Matthew meant.

I've no interest in arguing with someone who will not listen. You have been shown what Jeremiah meant. It is clearly explained in the book itself. I provided you with what Matthew Henry (a commentator) had to say about it.

If you will not listen, then believe what you want.

Last edited by Mike555; 11-02-2011 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,031 posts, read 1,499,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You are taking Jeremiah out of its context.

Look at the context. Jeremiah 8:11 is explained only three verses later. I showed you Jeremiah 14:13-15 which further explains it. If commentary on the matter is what you want then here is what Matthew Henry said about Jeremiah 8.

Jeremiah 8 Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

I've no interest in arguing with someone who will not listen. You have been shown what Jeremiah meant. It is clearly explained in the book itself. I provided you with what Matthew Henry (a commentator) had to say about it.

If you will not listen, then believe what you want.



if I am taking Jeremiah out of context so to is Clark and Gill.

And verse 8 is explained in verse 9.

what you want to do and are doing is bypassing scripture in order to explain the scriptures the way you want them to be explained. and you accuse me of picking and choosing, go figure.

Glad you agree I have been shown what Jeremiah meant, and it is contrary to what you posted.

You have put your faith in the scribes instead of the WORD of God which clearly contradicts the additions by the scribes.

Why do you think God said "this is my beloved son hear Him"? and he did so at the exclusion of Moses and Elijah.

It is in part because the lying pens of the scribes have handled the word of God deceitfully (another scripture by the way) so much so that people do not see God clearly. Jesus came to reveal the Father. That He had to reveal the Father shows that the Father was misunderstood. Why was the Father so misunderstood? Because, in part, of the lying pen of the scribes.

People simply do not want to believe Jesus, like the Jews of old they will hold to their own understanding, something you have continued to express in this thread.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:03 PM
 
12,550 posts, read 6,331,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post


if I am taking Jeremiah out of context so to is Clark and Gill.

And verse 8 is explained in verse 9.

what you want to do and are doing is bypassing scripture in order to explain the scriptures the way you want them to be explained. and you accuse me of picking and choosing, go figure.

Glad you agree I have been shown what Jeremiah meant, and it is contrary to what you posted.

You have put your faith in the scribes instead of the WORD of God which clearly contradicts the additions by the scribes.

Why do you think God said "this is my beloved son hear Him"? and he did so at the exclusion of Moses and Elijah.

It is in part because the lying pens of the scribes have handled the word of God deceitfully (another scripture by the way) so much so that people do not see God clearly. Jesus came to reveal the Father. That He had to reveal the Father shows that the Father was misunderstood. Why was the Father so misunderstood? Because, in part, of the lying pen of the scribes.

People simply do not want to believe Jesus, like the Jews of old they will hold to their own understanding, something you have continued to express in this thread.
I advised you to read the entire book of Jeremiah to understand the context of what Jeremiah was referring to. Not to bypass anything.

It is impossible to get through to someone who doesn't want to be got through to. Readers, refer to posts #120, 123, 125, and 129 concerning what Jeremiah meant by the lying pens of the scribes. It is clear as day.

The Jews were about to go into 70 years of Babylonian captivity because of their disobedience. But False prophets were telling the people that there would be peace. That there was nothing to worry about. That is the lie of the scribes.

Last edited by Mike555; 11-02-2011 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:23 PM
 
2,637 posts, read 992,878 times
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Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
Katie -

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." (1 John 5:1) The believer is adopted into the family of God and is an heir to the inheritance of eternal life.

In love 5hec predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and willó 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of Godís grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are Godís possessionóto the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1)


How many times have you been baptized? I have been only one time. Ephesians 4:5 says, "one Lord, one faith, one baptism".

If you were first baptized in the name of God (Father, Son, HS) as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:19, you have done what Jesus commanded. He did not demand more than one baptism.

If someone has been baptized more than once, what does this mean?
I see it can mean one of two things (or more?). One, they were not baptized in the name of God; or two, the second church told them that they were first baptized in the "wrong church". Maybe you can help answer the question.


Being a member of the family of God and a member of Christ's church are not the same thing, though some may think they are the same. They may think when one is saved and becomes a child of God, he is in the church because he is saved. This is also false. When one is saved, he is born into the family of God. We get into a family by either birth or adoption. "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God."

One gets into a church by obeying the commands laid down in God's Word and this is by openly acknowledging Christ (receiving the Word), and after he is baptized he is added to the church. "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls". (Acts 2:41).

They received the Word first, after that they were baptized and thus added to the church. This verse tells us the results of Peter's sermon. He preached Christ and told them to repent. When they received the Word, they believed on Jesus and were born into the family of God. Then they were baptized and added to the church at Jerusalem. We see that we are born into the family of God through belief in Jesus, and we are added to the church of Christ through baptism.
Hi Saved,

Good post! I thought it was interesting and worth reading over a couple more times.

I've only been baptized once, unless you count being sprinkled as a baby as baptism, which I do not. I had no say in the matter. I see no reason for anyone to be baptized twice or more. What would be the point? There is only one church and the Lord does the adding. I don't believe in "joining a church." I think it's just fine to place membership with a particular church, but only the Lord can add you to His church. IMHO, once you are in, that's it. And hopefully you remain faithful throughout your lifetime.

I completey agree that the Lord adds us to His church when we get baptized. I always thought that was when we were adopted into God's family. I will take another look at the scriptures, but I think it all happens at the same time. I think you have to ask yourself what the church is. It is the called out, the saved. Anyway, I need to give your post more thought.

Katie
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:44 PM
 
2,637 posts, read 992,878 times
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Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
Fiero, homosexuality does, indeed exist in the Old Testament AND the New Testament. The precise word does not but the condition, the act most certainly does.

Katy, I see what you were doing, and how sincere you were/are. Bless you for that. I was trying to get you to relax. You can't "micromanage" another's walk with our Lord. People already abuse scripture and "cherry pick." My point to you was that our honesty about a bit of scripture obviously being WRONGLY translated is not going to cause other souls problems. The bible was inspired and the Spirit speaks to all that, in honesty and sincerity will read it and let it speak to them.

I've found much appreciation for the Lamsa translation of Aramaic into English. I've also found that it has not distorted any truths even one iota, and it's fuller, and probably more accurate than King James.
Thanks Sunny. You are so right. I can't micromanage another person's walk with the Lord. I also agree with you that we need to put our faith and trust in the Holy Spirit. He will guide us into all truth if are hearts are open to it and we are sincere.

I have never heard of the Lamsa translation. I'd be interested in learning more about it. What year was it written? I use the KJV, NASV, RSV, NKJV, NIV, and the Simple English version. They all say the same to me, but then I have not had the training and education in Bible that others may have had. I can only tell you that when it comes to my salvation and christian living, I trust those versions implicitly.

I will check out the Lamsa translation. Thanks.

Katie
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