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If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.
But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that is exactly what God is like.
To the OP. IMHO, you need to start reading the simple bear words of scripture, and not look for alternate meanings to your words to fit a doctrine you imagine. Your argument falls apart very quickly if you just do a word search on the word in English "eternal". Most of the New Testament references on on the Gospel side of the equation. The New Testament refers to eternal salvation, eternal life, the eternal Spirit, the eternal inheritance, and various other things that refer to God or the salvation He offers through faith in Jesus Christ. I checked several of these and they all use the same Greek word, "aiwnon". Now if you are going to argue that punishment is not eternal, then someone could also, God is not eternal nor is His gift of eternal life.
Sorry, but your argument holds absolutely no water.
And the bucket of water, given that of your logic is full of holes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Ignorance and prejudice abounds in the seminaries and this is an example of it. Unending eternal punishment of ANY kind is ludicrous. There is no PURPOSE to it.
God is NOT purposeless. The lack of logic, thought, and reason in the seminaries borders on the criminal.
It should read "age-during judgment," not "eternal damnation."
See Young's Literal Translation, (and fourteen other translations).
A snippet from Etymology of the Word "Damn"
The words "damn" and "Hell" are among favorite words spoken by theologians of the "hell-fire" type. Let us look into the etymology of this word "damn." We may find some interesting surprises. Etymology of the Word "Damn"
Instead of being forgiven, the offender will experience the consequences.
But the consequences are not eternal, but eonian.
While the righteous are enjoying life eonian, the offender will experience kolasis eonian which means age-during corrective chastisement. When the corrective chastisement has been achieved in everyone who needs it, then both life eonian and chastisement eonian will come to an end and eternity will continue with everyone saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.
A snippet from GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."
Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the second death
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
So, the person will never be forgiven, but will suffer only for a time? Am I understanding you correctly?
It might not even involve suffering, but instead, the penalty, at least, will be to not be living during the age following the Great White Throne Judgment after they are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death -- deaththat is, not life in some other form.
THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM
“The main point which we seek to impress upon our readers is to accept God’s declaration that, for those who are judged before the great white throne, the lake of fire is the second death, not a second lifetime.
While the ‘injury’ (literal translation) sustained by those who are cast into the lake if fire (in Revelation 20:14,15) will be fatal (since to these the lake of fire is the second death), it will not be permanent. We may be certain that this is the case, for, at the consummation, death will be abolished and all will be vivified, that God may be All in all. God is the Saviour of all mankind, and this includes all who enter the second death.”
It might not even involve suffering, but instead, the penalty, at least, will be to not be living during the age following the Great White Throne Judgment after they are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death -- deaththat is, not life in some other form.
THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM
“The main point which we seek to impress upon our readers is to accept God’s declaration that, for those who are judged before the great white throne, the lake of fire is the second death, not a second lifetime.
While the ‘injury’ (literal translation) sustained by those who are cast into the lake if fire (in Revelation 20:14,15) will be fatal (since to these the lake of fire is the second death), it will not be permanent. We may be certain that this is the case, for, at the consummation, death will be abolished and all will be vivified, that God may be All in all. God is the Saviour of all mankind, and this includes all who enter the second death.”
How can a person who is never forgiven be in God's presence?
Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the second death
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
How can a person who is never forgiven be in God's presence?
"All people who have not received forgiveness from God will suffer the consequenses, whether or not they have blasphemed the Spirit of God.
But the consequences are kolasis aionios, (age-during corrective chastisement), not eternal torment.
SEE
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS AIN -- AINIOS
Blasphemers of the Spirit of God will not receive forgiveness in this age, or even in the age to come Matthew 12:32 (the millenial age).
But they will receive forgiveness during the age that follows the Great White Throne judgment, the age of consummation or the age of Jubilee.
The reason we can be sure about that is because we know that sooner or later God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like. Because God says
"My counsel shall stand. I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him? He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen? Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.
The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like, as Bright Hope pointed out, the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 11-04-2011 at 01:20 PM..
Did you not read this part?
Blasphemers of the Spirit of God will never receive forgiveness in this age, or even in the age to come Matthew 12:32 (the millenial age).
Only this present age, and the age to come is what never receiving forgiveness is limited to.
But there is an age beyond the millenial age in which they will be forgiven.
A snippet from THE MILLENNIAL AGE
We have seen that the Millennial age with all its glory is filled with judgment and with an iron rule (Ps. 2); and that notwithstanding its unspeakable blessings and Israel's preeminence, it is far from a perfect state. It can not be the final age. The final age must come with the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness."
THE MILLENNIAL AGE Is Hell Eternal? Or Will God's Plan Fail? Ch. 7 The Millennial Age
Did you not read this part?
Blasphemers of the Spirit of God will not receive forgiveness in this age, or even in the age to come Matthew 12:32 (the millenial age).
Only this present age, and the age to come is what never receiving forgiveness is limited to.
But there is an age beyond the millenial age in which they will be forgiven.
A snippet from THE MILLENNIAL AGE
We have seen that the Millennial age with all its glory is filled with judgment and with an iron rule (Ps. 2); and that notwithstanding its unspeakable blessings and Israel's preeminence, it is far from a perfect state. It can not be the final age. The final age must come with the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness."
THE MILLENIAL AGE Is Hell Eternal? Or Will God's Plan Fail? Ch. 7 The Millennial Age
When applied to its revealed period of time, yes, never means never -- i.e. never in this age, or even the next age.
A snippet from GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)." GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
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Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the second death
Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the second death
God’s plan for the ages of time
