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In the end, it really just ends up being another Christian denominational issue.
No, I am afraid not. Universalism rejects the very core teaching of Jesus Christ, which is the requirement of faith, and insted they promote an unbiblical after-death salvation process, so it is not just a denominational issue.
No, I am afraid not. Universalism rejects the very core teaching of Jesus Christ, which is the requirement of faith, so it is not just a denominational issue.
I believe in Universal reconciliation and I also believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
You have been exposed again as intentionally without shame of mis representing the teaching of Universal Reconciliation
God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not counting the sin of the people against them , God will bring all men into the knowledge of this..
To give his people the knowledge of salvation
***through the forgiveness of their sins,
because of the tender mercy of our God, Luke 1:77-78.
I believe in Universal reconciliation and I also believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
You have been exposed again as intentionally without shame of mis representing the teaching of Universal Reconciliation
God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not counting the sin of the people against them , God will bring all men into the knowledge of this..
To give his people the knowledge of salvation
***through the forgiveness of their sins,
because of the tender mercy of our God, Luke 1:77-78.
There is no such thing as after-death salvation process. I am not going over this for the thousandth time. You have been taught a lie pcamps.
You die, and then you are judged. It is as simple as that.
Heb 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment
There is no such thing as after-death salvation process. I am not going over this for the thousandth time. You have been taught a lie pcamps.
You die, and then you are judged. It is as simple as that.
Heb 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment
Whether you are right or wrong(and I know you are wrong), it does not change the fact you are intentionally without shame mis representing UR by saying that it teaches faith is not involved in salvation. You have been told this numerous times and you keep intentionally doing it.
Whether you are right or wrong(and I know you are wrong), it does not change the fact you are intentionally without shame mis representing UR by saying that it teaches faith is not involved in salvation. You have been told this numerous times and you keep intentionally doing it.
I am telling the truth, and everyone knows it. You throw in your usual accusations but you know EXACTLY what I mean, so you might as well stop pretending you don't.
I repeat again, universalists DO NOT believe faith is required for salvation, and that OBVIOUSLY means in this life (not after death). Why do you think I mentioned the unbiblical after-death salvation process two times? I mentioned it because that it what you believe, and you think faith comes into play after people die. It is not true and Hebrews 9:27 proves it.
No one is misrepresenting anything, no matter how hard you play the victim card and show fake outrage about being the victim. Everyone here knows your games here.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 11-07-2011 at 08:30 PM..
Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years
The author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church.
The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.”
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!
URs do believe that faith is required for salvation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
I repeat again, universalists DO NOT believe faith is required for salvation,
URs do believe that faith is required for salvation.
We believe God will grant saving faith to everyone according to His perfect timing for each individual, just like He did for Lydia, and Saul of Tarsus.
People who don't think salvation is 100% by God, not just 100% provided by God like to be in the hands of their own "free" will. That is where they feel most secure.
IMO, that is the most basic difference between ETers and URs.
Just like in the case of Lydia (whose heart the Lord opened, Acts 16:14) and Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:1-8), our cooperation to be saved is the result, not the cause, of God laying hold on us by His sovereign grace and causing Jesus to be "choce" in our heart.
The timing of the salvation of everyone is under God's sovereign control.
HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE - James Coram
CHOOSING WHAT IS CHOICE biblical studies: His Achievement Are We - Part 9 - Choosing What Is Choice
"No one to whom Christ is not yet choice can choose Christ.
And Christ cannot be choice to anyone to whom He has not yet been made choice.
When He is made choice He becomes choice and so is choice; or to say the same thing, He is chosen. This first act of the believer in which Christ is consciously chosen, is merely a consequence of his new mental preference which has been graciously granted to him by God."
ARMINIAN ET BELIEF - It's as if God says “Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to use your "free" will and cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”
My advice, don't put your faith in your faith. Your faith may, and probably will be misplaced from time to time, especially if you are having faith in your self.
Put your faith in Jesus Christ instead, because even if He casts you into the lake of fire which is the second death it will achieve the age-during corrective chastisement that He has promised to everyone who needs it.
Roger, you were so quick to copy/paste your standard reply, that you forgot the rest of my sentence which said "and that OBVIOUSLY means in this life". You only got the first half of the sentence. Once you die, it is too late.
I believe that salvation after death is irrefutably implied in the Scriptures by the following evidence
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
There is no such thing as after-death salvation process.
I believe the following proves you wrong. Readers will decide for themselves.
It really does come down to which Greek scholars you choose to rely on.
I believe that salvation after death is irrefutably implied in the Scriptures by the following evidence
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) of the sinners in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s,
J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed,
The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).
Salavtion will occur for most after they are raised from the dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Rodger, you were so quick to copy/paste your standard reply, that you forgot the rest of my sentence which said "and that OBVIOUSLY means in this life". You only got the first half of the sentence. Once you die, it is too late.
Since in most cases salvation does not occur in this life time, it logically follows that it will happen after they are raised from the dead. Readers will decide for themselves.
In my opinion, the following irrefutably proves that salvation will occur after death for those who are unbelievers during this life time.
Sooner or later God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants" if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand. I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him? He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen? Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.
The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like, as Bright Hope pointed out, the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.
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For more than the first 500 years after Christ
URs do believe that faith is required for salvation
