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God gave Adam the choice of life or death, obey my voice and live, disobey and die.
When one chooses Christ one is predestined to life, when one chooses death one is predestined to death.
Isn't 'predestinated' used in conjunction with 'before the foundation of the world'?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
That does not mean however that those who chose life cannot fall away, nor does it mean those who choose death cannot be grafted back into Christ. The reason being is because we must choose each day whom we will serve.
Why is it so difficult for the 'human' nature to admit that Hawyaw controls everything down to the minutest detail of existance therefore displaying that in a sense we have not free will?....That He has 'designed' the universe to operate exactly as it does according to His will and not ours?...We had no existence in the universe at all until Hawyaw conceived everything in His Mind down to the last detail and, declaring the End from the Beginning, implemented those designs...
I agree that predestination comes AFTER the choice. Those who are predestined are those who are "in Christ." One chooses to be or not to be "in Christ." We come to be in Christ
when we obey the gospel.
I also agree we can lose our salvation status, however, the door is always opened for us to turn away from sin and back to God.
No, you did not. Give me the courtesy of answering post #222.
I took the time to answer your question. Please take the time to respond.
Katie
I just looked at #222 and I did ansmer it, I even replied to each section of it individually, however, I searched for my reply and could not find it...I wonder what happened to it...
Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the circumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ.
Ephesians 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins
Dead is dead whether it is physically or spiritually.
So I would challenge anyone here who maintain that we have the ability to make ourself spiritually alive go up to a physical corpse and tell them to make a choice.
Now if you're not into that then read Ezekiel 37 .... which is what God saw as the spiritual condition of Israel:
He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”
Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.’ ” ...
Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel....I will put my Spirit in you and you will live,...Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.’ ”
Several points:
who did the action
A: " I have done it, declares the LORD.’ ”
who was the recipient
A: only the chosen... not "all" as the UR crowd wantonly insists
Good logic and reason, Spin...I've never studied that vision before, but I believe I will now...Interesting conclusion...
Thank you. You believe we are created in God's image. So do I. Richard does not, even though the scriptures support that we are indeed His offspring, created in His image.
You see, our friend Richard denies that we are made in God's image because that makes babies innocent. They are not totally depraved as Richard would have us believe.
Katie
I am not trying to get you to believe anything I say...I AM trying to get you to pay attention to Hawyaw's Sovreignty...
I know of no one who suggest we make ourselves alive in Christ. Colossians 2:11-14 tells us that it is through the working of God, the resurrection of Jesus, and the renewal of the Holy Spirit. However, we have the choice whether or not to accept God's gift of salvation.
Those who are predestined are those who are "in Christ." God knew who the predestined would be before the world was formed, but He did not choose individuals for heaven or eternal damnation. He gave man the freedom to choose or reject Him.
We are made in God's image (spiritually). We are His offspring. When we are born, we are pure and innocent, but as we mature, we sin and die spiritually. When we are born again, we are made alive spiritually.
Katie
Where in the Letters does it show anyone 'choosing' to follow Jeshua?...
I believe all flesh enters the world in the likeness and image of Adam, spiritually dead and under condemnation.
Book, chapter and verse please.
Quote:
However, I also believe that the image of God, ie: His Kingdom, is still within us (Luk 17:21), though we are unable to see and enter into it until born of the Spirit.
I believe we enter the world with God's image (spiritually) and Adam's image (physically).
I think you may be trying to say that when a person is born again, he becomes the image of God, or Christ-like in spirit. I agree with that.
I agree that we cannot enter the kingdom until we are born again, and the reason being is because we have sinned. Sin separates us from God. "The soul that sins, it shall die" (Ezekiel 18:20) Without the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, there is no salvation.
We are all created in God's image, just as Adam was. The moment Adam chose to disobey God, he died spiritually, and began to die physically as well. When a child is born, he/she is created in God's image. He is every bit as pure and innocent as Adam was. At some point, he/she sins. At that point, spiritual death takes place. If that person never comes to Jesus and becomes like a little child again, innocent and pure, then that person will die in their sins.
I think you need to prove with scripture that babies are born with sin inherited from Adam. According to Ezekiel 18, children do not inherit the sins of the father. It is the soul that sins, that dies.
Now I know you are universalist, and you believe everyone is going to heaven, regardless. But this is not what the thread is about. It's about whether or not we are capable of choosing God, and whether or not babies are born innocent or guilty of a sin they didn't commit.
I just looked at #222 and I did ansmer it, I even replied to each section of it individually, however, I searched for my reply and could not find it...I wonder what happened to it...
It's simple enough to remedy. Retype it! I would do it for you.
Besides, I can't wait for you to enlighten me.
Please post scriptures that show that babies inherit sin. I believe they inherit the consequences, but not the sin.
Katie
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