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Old 02-22-2008, 01:25 PM
 
Location: New England
8,155 posts, read 18,114,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HsvMike View Post
I did not read your post before I wrote that. I do understand what you are saying. I know that we are all sinners, and the only way to salvation is through Jesus. But it is everyones choice whether or not to follow that way. And to me, that is the true meaning of free will.
Thanks for replying.

I'm not sure what you can do with the scriptures I posted then. You either believe what it says or you don't.

I would also follow up with this one:
Rom 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,588,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello View Post
Thanks for replying.

I'm not sure what you can do with the scriptures I posted then. You either believe what it says or you don't.

I would also follow up with this one:
Rom 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
I see you reciting a lot of scriptures, but tell me in your own words what you think.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:27 PM
 
Location: New England
8,155 posts, read 18,114,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HsvMike View Post
I see you reciting a lot of scriptures, but tell me in your own words what you think.
Well on matters of God, my opinion doesn't overrul what's written. Besides, my thoughts do line up with the scripture.

Man is spiritually dead in his natural state. A child of the evil one. We will not on our own choose to worship God. While we were enemies of God, he loved us and in SPITE of us, gives us the faith to believe and be born again.

In day to day matters, I believe we have free choices but even then God foreknowing what we will do already has things "planned out". We never "surprise God".

I like to use this analogy.

When you are in your car going down the road, it seems like you are in control. You can speed up, slow down, change lanes, take an exit etc etc. BUT if you were to get into a helicopter and go 2000 feet up and ask the same question...it becomes obvious the ROAD is ultimately in control of where you go. You get to make minor changes but the road dictates your destination and how you will get there.

I see that in the Proverbs.
Pro 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps.
Peace and Grace to you,
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,588,598 times
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IMO, opinion, perception, and translation is everything in religion. That is how you can have so many different sects, beleiving in the same book, yet claiming to be so different. I honestly think that all of the different sects are so close, and people just don't realize it, or want to see it. We focus so much on the differences instead of what we have in common. I put a lot of value in someones opinion.

I don't agree that our lives are totally planned out and that we are just going through the motions. I beleive the choices we make will influence not only our future, but the future of everyone around us.

I also do not beleive that we are a child of the evil one, but a child of god.

I am glad we can have these types of discussions though. Being civil throughout, even though we might not be seeing eye to eye.
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Old 02-23-2008, 03:58 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,744,969 times
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Quote:
It is essential to God's purpose that His creatures should be oblivious of the power
which impels them, for their response must be without conscious constraint.
http://p199.ezboard.com/Do-We-Really-Have-quotFree-Willquot--by-/fjesusthelightoftheworldfrm37.showMessage?topicID= 38.topic

Quote:
To accomplish His purposes, God allows this illusion of “free” will. However, it is only for a season and is used by God as a tool to teach His creation the principle that nothing exists apart from Him--not even our ability to make choices. And like all idols, the idol of man’s supposed independence from God will one day be totally destroyed.
Man’s “Free” Will & God’s Absolute Sovereignty -Ken Ecke
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
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Hi Shana, I don't know if you posted before or not in this one. But like I asked JViello, what is your personal stance on it, in your own words.
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:40 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,744,969 times
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Hi HsvMike, I believe that God gives us choices but I don't believe that they are the result of free will. Something always influences or causes the choices that we make . For example, I make a choice as to what I will wear today but why did I choose this? I don't believe that it is the result of my own free will. There limitations, boundaries, restrictions on our wills, so how can we have absolute free will? We are unable to decide many things about our lives such as our parents, our race, sex, genes, ect. There are many things that we may desire to do that we are unable to do. I tend to see that we have self will as opposed to free will and that God allows us to exercise our self will in many things for His ultimate purposes. I also believe all is ultimately out of God and that He sees beginning to end. I believe that It may seem as though we are choosing Him, when in fact He chooses us to choose Him and He has designed things so that His will is accomplished, which is always good. It may look like we have free will but in reality it is God's work. He permits us to go against Him, so that we will eventually learn to choose good over evil, see the destructiveness of sin, realize the need for His salvation, for example. I base my belief on what I understand in the scriptures. Some ref. Romans 11:36, Ephesians 1:11, James 1:18, James 4:14-15. God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-24-2008 at 12:02 AM..
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,588,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
how can we have absolute free will?
I don't think there is absolute free will. I agree with you that yes there are things that no one can control like you stated. Maybe I see free will as self will within the context that you stated. Nicely put, thank you.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:05 AM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,744,969 times
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Thanks, HsvMike. God bless.
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Old 02-24-2008, 12:27 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 7,991,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi HsvMike, I believe that God gives us choices but I don't believe that they are the result of free will. Something always influences or causes the choices that we make . For example, I make a choice as to what I will wear today but why did I choose this? I don't believe that it is the result of my own free will. There limitations, boundaries, restrictions on our wills, so how can we have absolute free will? We are unable to decide many things about our lives such as our parents, our race, sex, genes, ect. There are many things that we may desire to do that we are unable to do. I tend to see that we have self will as opposed to free will and that God allows us to exercise our self will in many things for His ultimate purposes. I also believe all is ultimately out of God and that He sees beginning to end. I believe that It may seem as though we are choosing Him, when in fact He chooses us to choose Him and He has designed things so that His will is accomplished, which is always good. It may look like we have free will but in reality it is God's work. He permits us to go against Him, so that we will eventually learn to choose
good over evil, see the destructiveness of sin, realize the need for His salvation, for example. I base my belief on what I understand in the scriptures. Some ref. Romans 11:36, Ephesians 1:11, James 1:18, James 4:14-15. God bless.
I've heard so much by those who believe everything is ordained or God's purpose!
I have a story to share and like for those who seem to think God's purposes everything to His will. Since God has given you all this revelation, maybe one of you can tell me something Jesus hasn't quite gave me the answer too. Since all of the one's believe God has a greater design then the one He has shown me?
Because I'm confused~

There was a girl who was born into this world and had no choice in the direction her life led....
This story starts about when she was three years old! Please explain to her why God spoke her life into existence for the pleasure of men's sexual sin? Who lost her identity when the first hand of the men touched her? This continued until she was seventeen. Then was raped at 25 yrs old. Why did God ordain these men and father to sexually violate her life? When the father was suppose to represent the heavenly Father in love and trust.
It took Jesus 18 yrs of bringing individuals from the so call ET doctrine to show this woman a unconditional love and grace....
She cried many nights and days in that darkness of fear, confusion, anger!! Crying out to God for to make her normal.....like everyone else around her. Her thoughts plague her of who was she!!! And still to this day can say she walks by faith and not by sight. Because she has never knew what is real love!!! Touch by a man and held by a man because of the love of God. She believes Jesus and can only walk in the faith that He gives her that there is a love beyond this world. She can't see it right now! But one day she will!!! That is the hope He gave her......He used individuals to be instruments of His love and mercy. Through the so called church that I hear is so wrong to restore what the locust had eaten in her life!!!
Well to me "Jesus Christ" I have seen through many in the so called church. Then those who quote scripture to prove their 'all will be saved one day doctrine" and not one show compassion for the word of God..... just quoted. No love in those words.
A few weeks ago a man preyed on peoples beliefs and deceived them in trying to trick them into what he believe. That everything they were taught was a lie. Well she knows differently!!! If it was not for Jesus coming to this very soul who knows what would of come of this life....that is why she reacted the way she did.... with anger! And yet he still was going to prove his point and called her ignornant, unsaved, antichrist, deceived, this list goes on. Now do you see why I see that this teaching is not of God and there is no compassion in this teaching. If that man was sitting here and knew me personally do you think he would have done the same thing? There was no "Christ" in the reaction towards the woman who was fearing the deception that was trying to manipulate her into a false teaching. Would Jesus do that? To Peter who denied him or Paul who persecuted Him?
Please explain to me? You all seem to have Greek knowledge of the scripture and seem to have the answers..... where did I miss it? I didn't, I found it 18 year's ago..... in a little church in northern california. God knew the people in that church was filled with His Holy Spirit, full of His Love. Who would ask no question, but obey His commands to love unconditionally. They didn't have to prove Jesus.... He was in their hearts. And they didn't know where my life was for a long time until God through His mercy gave me the courage to share my story with them .
I keep reading all these post by UC and I can't hear the compassion of Christ Jesus..... Just words no heart in the sharing. And to say man does not have a choice in his ways.... that God is behind all of it...... Well the one thing that findly I could see was when I was laying on that bed and being violated of who I was, that I findly saw Jesus standing there showing me He was there and that is why He came to the earth and walked upon a hill called calvary for this woman and many more like her!!! No man can take that from my heart and soul.....

God Bless
Terri ~curlythecosmo~
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