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Old 02-25-2008, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,468,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
Freedom,

I don't believe that anyone completely overcame sin except Jesus Christ. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I do not hold to the Immaculate Conception of Mary as the RCC teaches. The seed of Adam in Mary and Enoch and John the Baptist etc. brought forth death in them all.

The Gospel is that the seed of the second Adam is in us all too and it will overcome the sin of Adam in us all eventually.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

John
Death did not come to Enoch, Elijah, Moses or Mary, nor for John the beloved, there we those that allowed death for the gospel, but had overcome the last enemy death, including Stephen, James, Peter.

Never sinning like Jesus, and overcoming sin... like those mentioned above, are not the same. We are given the promise of overcoming sin through living the teachings of Christ, if there is no victory, then whats the point of seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness....

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Indiana
1,250 posts, read 3,135,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Death did not come to Enoch, Elijah, Moses or Mary, nor for John the beloved,


I am confused by this...

I know that Enoch and Elijah were taken away to Heaven before they actually died, but the Bible clearly talks about Moses' death. Also, it never mentions the death of Mary or John, why do you say that death did not come to them?
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:54 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,054,830 times
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I believe he maybe talking about spiritual death.
Correct me if I'm wrong!

Blessing
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,468,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dojilynn View Post


I am confused by this...

I know that Enoch and Elijah were taken away to Heaven before they actually died, but the Bible clearly talks about Moses' death. Also, it never mentions the death of Mary or John, why do you say that death did not come to them?
Mary did nothing worthy of death, and overcame sin, and there are records that speak of her ascension. John the beloved was transfigured and was given the promise that he would not taste of death until Christ came and set up His kingdom on earth. The record of Enoch speaks of Enoch's return and teaching the higher principles to His city and then the whole city being taken up into heaven, the book of Enoch is still in the Ethiopic bible, it was taken out of our text around 400 a.d. I believe due to not wanting to empower the people and to clear up the many gods confusion of the time...
Moses was told by God that when his mission was complete, that he would serve God on Mt. Zion (the pure in heart). In the bible there is two places where the scribes say "which is being translated as" one the death of Moses. and 2. where Jesus supposedly said "My God why have you forsaken me. I take this to be an indicator that the scribes did not really know.
As well Moses appeared on the mount of transfiguration to show that he overcame death and still had his quickened soul. As well as to be a representative of the law.
Christ came that we might have life, life everlasting. This is mostly taken as after death.
When he clearly said, If you believe in me, ye shall never die. And "there are some standing here that shall not see death", until I come in power with my kingdom... when death will no longer be. This is a promise reserved for the few though available to all, Eternal life is the gift of God through Christ, even immortallity.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,468,390 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
I believe he maybe talking about spiritual death.
Correct me if I'm wrong!

Blessing
I know its a tough saying. But i am speaking of immortallity, overcoming physical death. Study the teachings of being quickened, and translation/transfiguration. As well as all the words Christ spoke regarding life eternal.
Truly there are those that inherit life eternal through martyrdom, but the life eternal that Jesus spoke of, was being transfigured, quickened, or the divine nature. Even immortallity.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:28 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,054,830 times
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What I meant was they did not die spiritually!!!
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Indiana
1,250 posts, read 3,135,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Mary did nothing worthy of death, and overcame sin, and there are records that speak of her ascension.
What records?
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Western Washington, USA
37 posts, read 95,054 times
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I believe there will come a day when the last enemy of physical death will be defeated and this mortality will have taken on immortality, but I do not believe that anyone has acceived that yet except Jesus. Mary and John are just speculation. I believe that both Enoch and Moses were taken by the Lord when they died as Satan battled for the body of Moses so he had left it behind and it was not changed as ours will one day experience.

John
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Old 02-25-2008, 02:52 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,836,009 times
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Quote:
I believe there will come a day when the last enemy of physical death will be defeated and this mortality will have taken on immortality, but I do not believe that anyone has acceived that yet except Jesus.
I agree. The scriptures say that Jesus is the only One who possesses immortality. God bless.
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,468,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
I agree. The scriptures say that Jesus is the only One who possesses immortality. God bless.
Hbr 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Where does it say that only Jesus is immortal?

I think Jesus said, the things i do Ye shall do and more.

godspeed,

freedom
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