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Old 02-25-2008, 08:19 PM
 
Location: NC
11,288 posts, read 8,784,206 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
If you believe that He has already come in His Kingdom with Power, then why did he even need to state that phrase, it was only weeks away...
Because He wanted to?

Quote:
and if He has already come in His Kingdom with Power... why in Revelation does it say that Satan will be bound and death will be no more, if its already happened, i hope this isn't heaven...
I believe that He is in in the process of subjecting all to Himself. Like the writer of Hebrews says, "All have been subjected to Him, but we do not see all in subjection to Him." All rule, power, and authority will eventually be abolished, including satan's and death's, is what I believe. (1 Cor. 15) God bless.

godspeed,
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Old 02-25-2008, 08:22 PM
 
Location: NC
11,288 posts, read 8,784,206 times
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John, how do you understand these passages?

JOHN 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. (RSV)


I CORINTHIANS 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed -- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (NKJV)

I THESSALONIANS 4:15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air…(NIV)


God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-25-2008 at 08:36 PM..
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Old 02-25-2008, 08:47 PM
 
Location: In the♥of Jesus !
9,569 posts, read 5,173,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Yes, the fulness of the Father is available in the now, not just the far off.
There is never a good time to put off righteousness, and rely on something being given later, when it has all been made available now...who knows how close we can be with our Father but Christ. And He said the kingdom is within us, and is at hand (right here).

godspeed,

freedom
Amen, freedom!! Yes, it is now!! That is my hearts desire. I want the fullness of Christ Jesus! No more flesh or sin nature.... Him completely!

God bless!!
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Old 02-25-2008, 08:52 PM
 
79 posts, read 128,940 times
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Gods will is not done! Its not. So we are not actors or predetermined to play out preordained roles. Free will is all that is happening that appears chaotic happening inside a controled environment. Inside time capsule if you will that is completely inside the control of an all power ful God whose very nature is free. It was for freedom that he made us free with the full knowledge that we may reject that freedom and turn away from it.
So freewill is a double edged sword. Whereas before there was only one destiny for me and NO choice. Now i am free to choose to continue with him or in rebellion reject him.

Read Romans chapter 11
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:00 PM
 
Location: NC
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John, here are a couple of other translations of the verse in Matthew 16. Thanks for sharing. God bless.


"Verily, I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in His reign (Young's Lit)

"Verily, I am saying to you, there are certain of those standing here, who under no circumstances should be tasting death till they should be perceiving the Son of mankind coming in His kingdom..." (Concordant Lit)

God bless.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:03 PM
 
Location: NC
11,288 posts, read 8,784,206 times
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Quote:
Whereas before, there was only one destiny and no choice...
Why was this, Dirtrash? Just asking. God bless.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 8,286,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
John, how do you understand these passages?

JOHN 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. (RSV)
I think that this verse points out how important it is to live according to Christ, and not rest in salvation. To the purpose of the verse at the time, one must read 5:24 regarding those that believe and live his word have ever lasting life and are passed from death unto life. This is the quickening of the spirit.


Quote:
I CORINTHIANS 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed -- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (NKJV)
This shows how the flesh must be transfigured as Jesus was. The quickening, is where we take on the divine nature that Peter spoke of. The wages of sin are death, if one overcomes sin, then death will have no hold on them, this is a promise of Christ. He died in our place, that we would not have to, other than dying to the self...our prides and lusts, and weaknesses must die, that we might inherit life eternal, life ever-lasting
Quote:
I THESSALONIANS 4:15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air…(NIV)
yes, this is end times prophecy, those that are caught up are the righteous, that Saints that have been sealed. There are those being prepared now and have already been prepared to help those to understand the path of righteousness, and power. The only reason there will be those alive at that time is because Saints will be sealed in the forehead with the seal of God, which is light and power. They will protect those that are close to fulfilling all righteousness.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Western Washington, USA
37 posts, read 74,257 times
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I believe that there are times that are kept in the Father's hands. In the Greek, these are kairos moments. For example, although Jesus had died and rose to make the coming of the Holy Spirit in the church possible, they had to tarry in Jerusalem until the Feast of Pentecost had fully come. I do not think that we have to tarry for the Holy Spirit any longer once this kairos moment had come, but the original 120 could not have been baptized into the fulfillment of Pentecost until this day which was kept in the Father's hand.

Similarly, there are many Christians in the next upper room awaiting the fulfillment of Tabernacles when the Overcomers will be glorified and be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. I do not believe that anyone has or anyone can receive immortality until this moment. Even then, there will only be a relative few who will partake of this first resurrection. Others will come in one at a time after that just like we come into Pentecost on an individual basis since that first upper room. The fulfillment of Tabernacles when the church begins to be glorified has not yet come.......

But I feel it is close.

John
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:36 AM
 
Location: New England
8,156 posts, read 12,765,358 times
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I have about 5 minutes to write a reply....

To recap:

1. Mankind does not have freewill regarding his choice to believe in a savior. This is all over scripture.

2. Mankind does have the ability to make "free" choices in life both good and evil.

3. When evil affects those of us who are called his children (The saved) God turns it into good.
Gen 50:20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.

Rom 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,] who have been called according to his purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
J'Viello, do you believe that God has preordained or chosen some to have eternal life and that He has preordained the rest to eternal hell, through no choice of their own?
Mankind was given a directive. Mankind did not obey. It is mankind that is at fault, not God.

If he did not save one, he is justified, if he saves any he is merciful.
Rom 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
We have seemed to forget that these days.

But to be more specific on your question and where you are attempting to lead this (CU viewpoint) I'll simply point out 1 Peter 1:2
1Pe 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:
God is not subject to our time and space. He has foreknowledge that we do not.

Moreso, if you don't believe what you stated you'll have to contend and "greek" your way out of Romans 9

Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

Rom 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Rom 9:19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?”

Rom 9:20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”

Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

Rom 9:22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction?
Quote:
Do you believe that those who reject Jesus do so because they are preordained to reject Him?
ALL HAVE GONE ASTRAY...There are NONE THAT SEEK GOD. God doesn't have to do anything that isn't already done. In our nature we will not and do not seek Him on our own.

Quote:
How is this reconciled with scriptures which speak of God's love for all men?
So are you saying a mother does not love both her well behaved child and her child who was a total wreck to the point of killing themselves through a heroin habit?

For the sake of this thread I'm going to ignore the CU stuff you tossed in, please try and do the same.
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:28 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 1,722,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello View Post
Mankind was given a directive. Mankind did not obey. It is mankind that is at fault, not God.
Evidently then, the apostle St. Paul was wrong....

"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who subjected the same in hope. And the hope is that in the end the whole of created life shall be delivered...."

Quote:
th gar mataiothti h ktisiV upetagh ouc ekousa alla dia ton upotaxanta ef elpidi
Quote:
Rom 9:22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction.
Fitted=katartivzw
Katartivzw=
To render or to fit.
To make sound or complete.
To mend what has been broken or rent.
To repair what has been broken or rent.
To put in order.
To arrange. To adjust.
To fit or frame for one's self.
To strengthen, to perfect, to complete.
To make one what he aught to be.
Fitted= kathrtismena=
Literally adjusted or mended.
Quote:
ei de qelwn o qeoV endeixasqai thn orghn kai gnwrisai to dunaton autou hnegken en pollh makroqumia skeuh orghV kathrtismena eiV apwleian
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