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Old 02-26-2008, 05:56 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,410,402 times
Reputation: 371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello View Post
Birdy and Shana, I unfortunatley do not have endless hours to spend on the computer with a small business, family and life to contend with along with a mother inlaw having cancer surgery in the morning. Nor do I work at a computer all day where I can ignore my work responsibilities and post all day. (Not that I think anyone here does that. )

I just came on here for a few minutes before having my dinner at 8pm at night after a 13 hour work day...and didn't expect to bump into 140 Greek quotes and 35 breakdown quotes of my post.

I do not have the time to get into it at the level you two seem to have the time for right now.

I will revisit this when I have the time. I'm sorry.
J.V. this is a hectic world to live in. I completely understand what you are up against. We trust the Lord's abounding life will undergird all of you at this time!
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:33 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,816,000 times
Reputation: 1323
Quote:
Birdy and Shana, I unfortunatley do not have endless hours to spend on the computer with a small business, family and life to contend with along with a mother inlaw having cancer surgery in the morning. Nor do I work at a computer all day where I can ignore my work responsibilities and post all day. (Not that I think anyone here does that. )
Well, I hope that no one here does that, JViello I hope that your mother in law's surgery goes well.

Quote:
I just came on here for a few minutes before having my dinner at 8pm at night after a 13 hour work day...and didn't expect to bump into 140 Greek quotes and 35 breakdown quotes of my post.
Well, we can get pretty indepth sometimes when we discuss God's word


Quote:
I do not have the time to get into it at the level you two seem to have the time for right now.


I will revisit this when I have the time. I'm sorry.
I understand.

Quote:
Short answer, you both are confusing the will regarding salvation with providence and grace. Basically you're all over the place with Arminianism, Palgianism, Sem-Palgianism, aspects of Calvinism and Universalist theology all mixed into one confused bag IMHO.
What is palgianism and semi -palgianism? I am only sharing what I understand to be presented in the scriptures with God's help, and trying to understand where others are coming from. In trying to understand where others are coming from this doesn't mean that I agree with them and vice versa I really do not understand where Calvinism is coming from

Quote:
It will take a while to sort it out...but I have a sneaky suspicion that you really don't want to hear anything besides that which you "believe" you see in the scripture anyway.

Well, I could say the same for you, JViello, right? I really do want to hear how you reconcile what is presented in the scriptures concerning the agape love of God for all people and the belief that He has predordained some to eternal life and some to eternal hell. Take care and God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-26-2008 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:46 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,410,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
What is palgianism and semi -palgianism?
Do you really want to know Shana?

Pelagianism= theological doctrine expressed by Pelagius, a British monk, and condemned as heresy by the Roman Catholic Church in A.D. 416.

It denied original sin and affirmed the ability of humans to be righteous by the exercise of free will.

Semi- palgiansim = just add "semi" to palgianism and voila!
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:57 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,816,000 times
Reputation: 1323
Oh, okay, Birdy. Thanks for the information! God bless.
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,453,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
Do you really want to know Shana?

Pelagianism= theological doctrine expressed by Pelagius, a British monk, and condemned as heresy by the Roman Catholic Church in A.D. 416.

It denied original sin and affirmed the ability of humans to be righteous by the exercise of free will.

Semi- palgiansim = just add "semi" to palgianism and voila!
Why is that wrong, are we not to seek righteousness, godliness, perfection?

godspeed,


freedom
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,221 posts, read 2,602,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
It denied original sin and affirmed the ability of humans to be righteous by the exercise of free will.
That sounds good to me. I do not beleive in original sin personally. I can't see how a baby that is just born is a sinner. I see a baby to have the purest of heart. How can a baby be held accountable already when he/she does not know right from wrong?

Sorry if it is off topic.
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:37 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,410,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HsvMike View Post
That sounds good to me. I do not beleive in original sin personally. I can't see how a baby that is just born is a sinner. I see a baby to have the purest of heart. How can a baby be held accountable already when he/she does not know right from wrong?

Sorry if it is off topic.
Hi there Mike...a baby is innocent, but not pure. The Scriptures state that by the disobedience of one man, the mass of mankind "were made sinners." In other words, we sin because we are sinners, it is in our nature to do so. Little innocent babies simply need an opportunity, which will come in due time, to express what they are: sinners. Our God does not simply eliminate sins, He destroys the nature of sin. The glorious news is that the mass of mankind made sinners, are the same mass of mankind "made righteous." Ah, the ways of God are truly past finding out.

Which brings us to "free will".....oh, let's just leave it there for now.

Last edited by Birdy_56; 02-27-2008 at 04:47 AM..
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:36 AM
 
42 posts, read 114,721 times
Reputation: 23
Muslim point of view.

Everything happens with the Will of Allah (SWT), then where is the power of individual will. The induviual will is there -every one has his own individual will .For e.g I'll tell you that, from the power station, the main electric supply is coming from the head quarters… from the power stations -and you have a plug out here. The power is from the head quarters electric station. If a man puts a finger in the live wire, he will get a shock. Who is to blame?… The man. God gave him free will -he could put his finger…or not put his finger. You cannot blame the power station - Without the power, you could not have got a shock. If the electric supply would have closed from the top, you would not have got the shock…but because of that, you cannot blame the electric supply. You will have to blame the man -that why did he touch the live wire? So the power is from Allah (SWT).

Without Allahs power nothing can happen. But though Allah has the power, Allah has given you a free will to choose, right from wrong. He can stop you from committing a murder -But then He gave you a free will -Why? Because, this life is a Test Surah Mulk, Ch. 67, V. 2, "The life and the death that you have, is the test for the Hereafter".
Allah wants to see, that this is an examination in the world. Hardly, average life is sixty years, some people live for 20, some live for 80, some live for 90 - Average 50 to 60 years. So Allah says…This life, for the human beings is a test, for the Hereafter. Allah has given you, free will -He has shown right and wrong, in the instruction manual…the Holy Qur'an. If you follow it, you pass the test -if you do not follow it, you fail the test. Allah has given you a free will.

Does this make sense???
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:16 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,410,402 times
Reputation: 371
The Hornets

To the tune of This Is Like Heaven To Me

This Is Like Heaven to Me

Quote:
If a nest of live hornets were brought to this room

And the creatures allowed to go free,

You would not need urgings to make yourself scarce

You'd want to get out, don't you see.

They would not lay hold and by force of their strength

Throw you out of the window, oh no,

They would not compel you to go 'gainst your will

But they would just make you willing to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, no, no

He does not compel us to go.

He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will

But he just makes us willing to go.


When the Canaanites hardened their hearts against God

And grieved Him because of their sin,

God sent along hornets to bring them to time

And help his own people to win.

The hornets persuaded them that it was best

To go quickly, and not to go slow:

God did not compel them to go 'gainst their will

But he just made them willing to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, no, no

He does not compel us to go.

He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will

But he just makes us willing to go.


When Jonah was sent to the work of the Lord

The outlook was not very bright;

He had never done such a hard thing before

So he backed and ran off from the fight.

But God sent a big fish to swallow him up,

The story I'm sure you all know,

He did not compel him to go 'gainst his will

But he just made him willing to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, no, no

He does not compel us to go.

He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will

But he just makes us willing to go.


When Moses was sent to lead Israel out

To Canaan's rich fruit-bearing land.

Resisting his spirit they worshipped a calf,

And refused to obey God's command.

God did not compel them to go to the land

Which with wine, milk, and honey did flow,

But fed them on manna for forty long years

'Till he got them ready to go.

Chorus

He does not compel us to go, no, no

He does not compel us to go.

He does not compel us to go against our will

But he just makes us willing to go.


When Balaam was sent to the Moabite king,

And wanted things run his own way,

His mule, ever faithful, spoke at the right time,

Made him willing God's will to obey.

God can use any man, since He used Balaam's mule,

For He is Almighty you know;

He does not compel us to go, 'against our will

But He just makes us willing to go.
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:23 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,816,000 times
Reputation: 1323
Amen, Birdy!God bless.
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