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I'm not judging you Finn or Mike, the Gospel is. I'm simply telling you both what the Gospel proclaims. Those are the words judging you and Mike, not me.
PS: How do I know who is and who is not reading this thread? Perhaps your friend will join us?
Listen you idiot. I am not on this thread. You have at least 3 times now mentioned me. Leave me out of the conversation.
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-06-2011 at 12:58 PM..
I'm not judging you Finn or Mike, the Gospel is. I'm simply telling you both what the Gospel proclaims. Those are the words judging you and Mike, not me.
No, it is you. You don't get to tell people they do not believe the Gospel without looking judgmental. You do not know people's hearts no matter how hard you want it to look like you do. Even if you did know, it would still not give you the authority to judge.
Who is Paul saying BE YE RECONCILED TO? The believer(the reconciled) or the unbeliever (he who is not reconciled). I understand that by answering the unbeliever you will see what you have built your belief on is sinking sand.
I am not interested in hearing anything from you,but the answer to my question.
He is saying it to both!! Reconiliation is an accomplished fact (2 Cor 5:18) and a continuing process (your v 19). This is why you can't cherry pick one verse, but must study passages in completion and in context.
Reconciliation is already accomplished because of Christ dying on the cross to cover our sins, but it still must be personally accepted. This passage was written to give hope to those who already are in Christ (your sins are forgiven! You are in Christ as a believer!) and as a ministry to offer the Gospel to unbelievers (You are a sinner but God wants to be reconciled with you through Christ his Son who died for your sins).
Being reconciled means accepting what God has achieved through Christ.
Last edited by TurtleCreek80; 11-06-2011 at 01:09 PM..
Reason: Changed word from given to accepted for clarity.
Please show the post where I said the message is only for the believer.
I never said it, did I? No one did. You love to invent arguments to argue against, but please don't claim I made the arguments, when everyone knows I didn't. This is exactly what I mean when I said you invent new stuff when the old stuff no longer salvageable.
Your Spin & Twist dance never ends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
For the sake of clarity, lets make sure people understand the author is talking about believers when he says "people"
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[a] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them
Like I said you conveniently left out these following verses which tell us that we are ambassadors of the message of reconciliation, and Paul clearly is saying this message is to those who are not reconciled by the fact he told us to tell the people(which you stated was the believer) "BE YE RECONCILED.
And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin[b] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
We implore who Finn and the fundamentalists ? The believer or the unbeliever ?
You are saying in response to me what the author is saying is to believers.
Good morning, Y'all, how are we doing this "spring back day" ? Did you remember to set your clocks back ???
Well, I believe what the apostles through our Lord God and Savior Jesus has shared, testified, to us God's love, mercy, through the beautiful scripture, what is the truth of God, witnessing to us through the power of His blessed Holy Spirit ....
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us." (1 John 1:1-10)
Yes, it is correct, God (the Light) is reconciling many people of this world too Himself, and He will not count their sin against those people..... God is reconciling them through Jesus Christ (the Light) in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.(Col.1:14)!!
YET, the people of the world are warned by God that the one who rejects Christ, wanting nothing to do with Him, the gospel, the good news and rather live being their own god and living in their sin (darkness) are not reconciled to God.
Their sin (darkness) blinds AND separates them from God (the Light) and therefore they are not reconciled to God until they repent of their sin (turn the other direction away from sin toward God), as we read in the book of Acts 2:38,.... “Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
That forgiveness is ONLY IN and THROUGH Christ Jesus (Light) the RECONCILER, bringing many to the kingdom of God.... to become the sons and daughters of the Most High God.... amen !!
That is what the Bible is all about, a message of reconciliation that..." In Him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace," (Eph.1:7), a love letter to the world from God..... and we must read it in complete context of the whole book, the word of God.....
THAT..... "All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” (Acts 10:43) “Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to YOU.(Acts 13:38)...... in order.... "to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in Me." (Acts 26:18)
Here is some beautiful scripture to search, meditate, whatever you choose to do.... be blessed through it !!
Psalm 130:3-5
3. If you, LORD, kept a record of sins,
Lord, who could stand?
4. But with you there is forgiveness,
so that we can, with reverence, serve you.
5. I wait for the LORD, my whole being waits,
and in his word I put my hope.
Acts 2:37-39
37. When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38. Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Luke 24:46-48
46. He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47. and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48. You are witnesses of these things.
Matthew 26:27-28
27. Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.
28. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Please take the time and search, study the word of God and I guarantee with all my heart, life, that the Holy Spirit will lead anyone and everyone to GOD'S COMPLETE WILL AND TRUTH for your life.....
Don't just take anyone's word, including mine, seek it for yourself and God will lead you in all HIS truth, not man's..... amen !!
Context please, do we want reconciliation or do we want to reject reconciliation, context makes it a choice.
If it is something you can choose to accept or reject . . . then it is not something you actually believe in your heart of hearts, Robin. Choice is limited to things we do NOT already actually believe. Try to choose NOT to believe something you actually DO believe in your heart of hearts, Robin. It can NOT be done. It is NOT a choice.
He is saying it to both!! Reconiliation is an accomplished fact (2 Cor 5:18) and a continuing process (your v 19). This is why you can't cherry pick one verse, but must study passages in completion and in context.
Reconciliation is already accomplished because of Christ dying on the cross to cover our sins, but it still must be personally given. This passage was written to give hope to those who already are in Christ (your sins are forgiven! You are in Christ as a believer!) and as a ministry to offer the Gospel to unbelievers (You are a sinner but God wants to be reconciled with you through Christ his Son who died for your sins).
Being reconciled means accepting what God has achieved through Christ.
I really do not think anyone here is "cherry-picking" anything. The text says this:
2Co 5:19 how that God was in Christ--a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation,
Vs. 19 is speaking of "them", the faithless of the world, those who have not yet received the reconciliation through faith. The "us" are believers that take the accomplished proclamation to those who do not believe, like what PC is doing here in this thread.
Believers are not in need of knowing their sins are forgiven. They already know, and with much assurance that their sins are forgiven:
1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
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Good morning, Y'all, how are we doing this "spring back day" ? Did you remember to set your clocks back ???
