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Old 11-09-2011, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
14,064 posts, read 9,864,780 times
Reputation: 4714

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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
I've only come accross people with this belief two or three times, and it's a very strange experience I must say. Is there a name to what these people could be under, besides false Messiah's? I mean, is there a certain new age movement that I don't know about?

Let me describe to the best of my ability the characters that I'm talking about. These people see the Messiah in a very very strange way, as though we as well as the literal Yahushua the Messiah (the Lamb) are the exact same person, and are 100% equal with Him, even in position. They cannot distinguish the difference between the accual real person of the Messiah and theirself.

When I think of their belief I am reminded of the scriptures that say, "God said to certain leaders of the people, 'I say you are gods, and children of the Most High'", "King of Kings", "sit with me on my throne", and "to them I will give authority of all the nations. They will rule the nations with an iron rod and smash them like pots". I believe it's scriptures like this that they stumble over and exalt theirself in a most pridefull way. I'm not talking about Mormons, although I believe they are extremely close to this (if your Mormon, I don't mind this being a thread that would clear up any missunderstand about what I've said), I'm asking about someone who is almost like a robot in their belief in this, and has lost all personality. Also, speaking of personality, could it be that this belief does damage to their personality, or is it accually because of a personality dissorder? And is this similar to David Coreshes belief? Let's talk about all things similar to this and false Messiah's, but please give any information about the character I've described.

Any information on this subject would be appreciated.
I'd like to respond to this post, but I'm really not sure I understand what it is you're saying. Would you mind just restating what you think Mormons believe, and I'll tell you whether you're right or wrong in your understanding? Thanks.
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Old 11-10-2011, 10:34 PM
 
1,825 posts, read 868,830 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princely View Post
I have no mental problems.

"The son of man comes eating and drinking and people think he is madd or a drunkard."

There is a hidden meaning in that saying. See if you can find it.
So you believe in the Lamb that takes away our sins. Ok, that's good. Well how do you see you as being One with the Messiah? Where does the Messiah say that "you" and the "Messiah" are "One"? He says that we should be one, even as He and the Father is one, but I can't find Him telling us that we are one with the Messiah. And even thought we as His bride is united as one, doesn't litterally mean that we arent separate individuals. He means that He walks among us, by the power of the Holy Spirit that's living in us we become united because it's Him living in us.


John 17
21 I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.22 “I have given them the glory you gave me, so they may be one as we are one. 23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity...

Is that where you get your belief from? Do you think just because He lives in us, that means you can go around thinking your "Jesus"?

Are you the Lamb? Did you lay your heavenly majesty down and die for my sins? Did you exist before the heavens and earth were created? Do your best to respond like a real person please.

Have you ever read the words of the Apostles Peter, John, James, etc? Can't you see that what's going on in your head is sick? I'm only trying to help you man, not pick on you or belittle you. Just start with Peter for example, since the Messiah said he was the one He'd build his church with. Or even John who wrote the Book of Revelation. Don't you see the huge difference in the way they wrote, and their mentality? Seriously, were talking about the real Apostles who were there with the Messiah the whole time.

Man, I care about you as a human being created in the image of God. I really care and chose not to mock you or hate you or persecute you or pick on you. I'd really like to help you. I know you probably stand pretty firm in this One thing with God and all and it would probably take a lot of humbling yourself to realize your way of looking at yourself is a huge error. But please, look at our examples from the Apostles and see if their mindset was like yourself. Do you see any resemblence at all? And you mentioned something about eating and drinking, making it seem like your condoning mind altering substances. If that's the case, why don't you let me help you out ok. Trust me on this one. Go one month without doing whatever your doing, eat a healthy diet, get some excersize, and drink loooots of water. And then, maybe your hanging around the wrong people. I'd say there's a 99% chance your hanging around the wrong people. At least do this for yourself and allow God to heal you. I'll be praying for you this week like I said and I'm 100% sure those prayers are going to be answered.

Whoever you are.

Last edited by O-Ducky; 11-10-2011 at 10:57 PM..
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:01 AM
 
463 posts, read 197,191 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
So you believe in the Lamb that takes away our sins. Ok, that's good. Well how do you see you as being One with the Messiah? Where does the Messiah say that "you" and the "Messiah" are "One"? He says that we should be one, even as He and the Father is one, but I can't find Him telling us that we are one with the Messiah. And even thought we as His bride is united as one, doesn't litterally mean that we arent separate individuals. He means that He walks among us, by the power of the Holy Spirit that's living in us we become united because it's Him living in us.


John 17
21 I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.22 “I have given them the glory you gave me, so they may be one as we are one. 23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity...

Is that where you get your belief from? Do you think just because He lives in us, that means you can go around thinking your "Jesus"?

Are you the Lamb? Did you lay your heavenly majesty down and die for my sins? Did you exist before the heavens and earth were created? Do your best to respond like a real person please.

Have you ever read the words of the Apostles Peter, John, James, etc? Can't you see that what's going on in your head is sick? I'm only trying to help you man, not pick on you or belittle you. Just start with Peter for example, since the Messiah said he was the one He'd build his church with. Or even John who wrote the Book of Revelation. Don't you see the huge difference in the way they wrote, and their mentality? Seriously, were talking about the real Apostles who were there with the Messiah the whole time.

Man, I care about you as a human being created in the image of God. I really care and chose not to mock you or hate you or persecute you or pick on you. I'd really like to help you. I know you probably stand pretty firm in this One thing with God and all and it would probably take a lot of humbling yourself to realize your way of looking at yourself is a huge error. But please, look at our examples from the Apostles and see if their mindset was like yourself. Do you see any resemblence at all? And you mentioned something about eating and drinking, making it seem like your condoning mind altering substances. If that's the case, why don't you let me help you out ok. Trust me on this one. Go one month without doing whatever your doing, eat a healthy diet, get some excersize, and drink loooots of water. And then, maybe your hanging around the wrong people. I'd say there's a 99% chance your hanging around the wrong people. At least do this for yourself and allow God to heal you. I'll be praying for you this week like I said and I'm 100% sure those prayers are going to be answered.

Whoever you are.
I'm not doing drugs or anything harmful like that. You don't understand the meaning of eating and drinking in the way it is used in that saying.

Throughout the Gospel of John Jesus is saying He wants His followers to become in a sense Him.I've been saying the same thing but you cannot hear it because you do not follow His wishes and mine.Like He said He gave His followers the same message that His Father gave Him.That would make His followers have to say what He said.He said its good enough for the student to become like His teacher.He said He sent His followers into the world as He was sent into the world.From what we have in the bible I can't see that the disciples did this, so I have to assume they failed, except I think towards the end of Johns days he did finally understand but he was too old by then. If everything was going to be ok why would Jesus have said Elijah would have to come and restore everything.I'm not wrong. I am son of man.So since I am son of man, to this point you are on my left, with the goats.If you repent and turn to me you will move to my right, with the righteous.Could this be the time you least expect, when the son of man comes.It is, I am the way the truth and the life, I do what Jesus commanded, but sinners cannot see it.I know the Lord and I keep His words.


"Now they know that everything you gave me is from you,
because the words you gave to me I have given to them, and they accepted them and truly understood that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.

"As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world".

The reason I was born and the reason I came into the world is to testify to the truth. Anyone committed to the truth hears my voice."

Didn't I tell you, if you have faith you will see the glory of God.

Any one who is not willing to pick up their cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

If you live in me and my words remain part of you, you may ask what you will and your will shall be done for you.

The man who wants to come to me will hear my words and put them into practice.
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