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Old 11-09-2011, 11:28 AM
 
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I've only come accross people with this belief two or three times, and it's a very strange experience I must say. Is there a name to what these people could be under, besides false Messiah's? I mean, is there a certain new age movement that I don't know about?

Let me describe to the best of my ability the characters that I'm talking about. These people see the Messiah in a very very strange way, as though we as well as the literal Yahushua the Messiah (the Lamb) are the exact same person, and are 100% equal with Him, even in position. They cannot distinguish the difference between the accual real person of the Messiah and theirself.

When I think of their belief I am reminded of the scriptures that say, "God said to certain leaders of the people, 'I say you are gods, and children of the Most High'", "King of Kings", "sit with me on my throne", and "to them I will give authority of all the nations. They will rule the nations with an iron rod and smash them like pots". I believe it's scriptures like this that they stumble over and exalt theirself in a most pridefull way. I'm not talking about Mormons, although I believe they are extremely close to this (if your Mormon, I don't mind this being a thread that would clear up any missunderstand about what I've said), I'm asking about someone who is almost like a robot in their belief in this, and has lost all personality. Also, speaking of personality, could it be that this belief does damage to their personality, or is it accually because of a personality dissorder? And is this similar to David Coreshes belief? Let's talk about all things similar to this and false Messiah's, but please give any information about the character I've described.

Any information on this subject would be appreciated.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
I've only come accross people with this belief two or three times, and it's a very strange experience I must say. Is there a name to what these people could be under, besides false Messiah's? I mean, is there a certain new age movement that I don't know about?

Let me describe to the best of my ability the characters that I'm talking about. These people see the Messiah in a very very strange way, as though we as well as the literal Yahushua the Messiah (the Lamb) are the exact same person, and are 100% equal with Him, even in position. They cannot distinguish the difference between the accual real person of the Messiah and theirself.

When I think of their belief I am reminded of the scriptures that say, "God said to certain leaders of the people, 'I say you are gods, and children of the Most High'", "King of Kings", "sit with me on my throne", and "to them I will give authority of all the nations. They will rule the nations with an iron rod and smash them like pots". I believe it's scriptures like this that they stumble over and exalt theirself in a most pridefull way. I'm not talking about Mormons, although I believe they are extremely close to this (if your Mormon, I don't mind this being a thread that would clear up any missunderstand about what I've said), I'm asking about someone who is almost like a robot in their belief in this, and has lost all personality. Also, speaking of personality, could it be that this belief does damage to their personality, or is it accually because of a personality dissorder? And is this similar to David Coreshes belief? Let's talk about all things similar to this and false Messiah's, but please give any information about the character I've described.

Any information on this subject would be appreciated.

Are you talking about people who present themselves now, as a human being equal to the messiah and that now everything they say is unquestionably equal to Him? Or someone who believes ultimatly we are in a process to become that in the after life?
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Are you talking about people who present themselves now, as a human being equal to the messiah and that now everything they say is unquestionably equal to Him? Or someone who believes ultimatly we are in a process to become that in the after life?
Yes, I'm talking about people who present themselves here on this earth right now as having no distinguished difference with the Messiah.

Now I know where you stand on the belief of the Messiah as the sacrificial Lamb that takes away our sins, so lets not get too sidetracked. But I have to say this. That is the one person who I'm speaking of, and of course I know scripture also says that He is in fact God Himself, with a big G. It's my suspicion that these people obviously can't believe in the Yahushua the Lamb because they wouldn't be able to believe like they do, since they know that they aren't the Lamb who gave their life as a sacrifice for sin, and never will.

In the case of Mormons, I've spoke with many of them who claim that that the Messiah was one of us at one time, in a sense that He had to advance or progress to be who He is now, and we are going through the same thing as Him. Yahushua was always who He is and there was never a progression of being. He humbled Himself and became one of us but there is a major difference in these two beliefs, and the former puts us in a very equal position with Him, with no distintion between us and Him. It's like saying God was one of us and we are going become God who does the same creative things as Him, and then our subjects will do the same, and so on. This isn't something I'm making up, it's what Mormon's have told me, even though there is one here who denies that belief. So really, that's a very similiar belief, and it robs the Eternal Almighty - One, of His glory.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
Yes, I'm talking about people who present themselves here on this earth right now as having no distinguished difference with the Messiah.

Now I know where you stand on the belief of the Messiah as the sacrificial Lamb that takes away our sins, so lets not get too sidetracked. But I have to say this. That is the one person who I'm speaking of, and of course I know scripture also says that He is in fact God Himself, with a big G. It's my suspicion that these people obviously can't believe in the Yahushua the Lamb because they wouldn't be able to believe like they do, since they know that they aren't the Lamb who gave their life as a sacrifice for sin, and never will.

In the case of Mormons, I've spoke with many of them who claim that that the Messiah was one of us at one time, in a sense that He had to advance or progress to be who He is now, and we are going through the same thing as Him. Yahushua was always who He is and there was never a progression of being. He humbled Himself and became one of us but there is a major difference in these two beliefs, and the former puts us in a very equal position with Him, with no distintion between us and Him. It's like saying God was one of us and we are going become God who does the same creative things as Him, and then our subjects will do the same, and so on. This isn't something I'm making up, it's what Mormon's have told me, even though there is one here who denies that belief. So really, that's a very similiar belief, and it robs the Eternal Almighty - One, of His glory.

No problem, I was making sure of the difference. The rule of thumb anyone should always rely on is if anyone claims that they speak or repeat the truth of God and rejecting what they say is equal to rejecting God, then don't listen to a word they say, they are false representatives of God.

No human has the Godly authority to tell you you must listen to what they say. Stick to that rule and you will be fine.

I do not agree that Mormons exalt themselves in this life to be equal to God in that manner. Their beliefs are a way to offer hope and excitement for what is to come. That is no different than any basic Christian believes. I certainly get excited about what may be to come in a life with God. I'm sure you probably are too.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
No problem, I was making sure of the difference. The rule of thumb anyone should always rely on is if anyone claims that they speak or repeat the truth of God and rejecting what they say is equal to rejecting God, then don't listen to a word they say, they are false representatives of God.

No human has the Godly authority to tell you you must listen to what they say. Stick to that rule and you will be fine.

I do not agree that Mormons exalt themselves in this life to be equal to God in that manner. Their beliefs are a way to offer hope and excitement for what is to come. That is no different than any basic Christian believes. I certainly get excited about what may be to come in a life with God. I'm sure you probably are too.
"claims that they speak or repeat the truth of God and rejection what they say is equal to rejecting God" - What does that mean? It's not ok to repeat the words of the Messiah? And the last part - rejecting what "they" say? Who is the they? Rejecting what they themselves say or saying that someone's belief is rejecting God?

Matthew 28
19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations,baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.â€

Revelation 2
14 “But I have a few complaints against you. You tolerate some among you whose teaching is like that of Balaam, who showed Balak how to trip up the people of Israel...16 Repent of your sin, or I will come to you suddenly and fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

So your saying you don't believe I've spoke with many Mormons who have expressed that belief? Ok, if you think I'm lying about it, but it's true, that's what "many" have expressed to me. I'm not saying that is what their "prophets" teach, or even Joseph Smith, but that's what their people explained to me.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:01 PM
 
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Just because you disobey Jesus and can't understand scripture you try to make me out to be a false prophet when in truth the Lord said that His followers would be One just as He is One with the Almighty.He said that His disciples would be like Him.He said to stay awake or you won't know when your lord has come.Well you don't know.Jesus said Elijah would come again to restore everything but you cannot believe that religion is the thing that has destroyed it.I can see how hard it must be to think that it has come to this because I had a hard time believing it myself. This didn't happen over night for me. I struggled to accept it, but after many years I had to give in and do what the Lord revealed to me.It isn't something I wanted to do, it is more that I was commanded to.You think I'm doing it to be high and mighty but no, I do not want your acceptance I want the Lords acceptance.You are the one who is a false teacher.I must do as the Lord commanded me so the world will see that I honor Him.You won't get away with disobeying Jesus and the son of man.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:04 PM
 
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I've invited someone who believes they are a great princely teacher who speaks words to us from the Messiah Himself. Here are the questions I have for him:

1.) Do you believe the Messiah is the Lamb that takes away our sins?
- that is the most important question and if you can't simply give a very quick answer of yes of no then don't bother answering the rest.

2.) Do you believe you are 100% equal with the Messiah?

3.) Will you ever be 100% equal with the Messiah?
- when I say equal I mean 100% equal with no distinguishable difference between you and Him. I don't mean the same single person, just equal in every aspect.

Let's start with those three. If you don't answer them and continue to do as you do then that will have to assume you either have serious mental problems, or you are the exact type of person this thread is about. I believe if you really know God, of course He'd have no problem with you being real with people and answering a few questions, to help understand, like you always claim you do.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:09 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,953,915 times
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Originally Posted by Princely View Post
Just because you disobey Jesus and can't understand scripture you try to make me out to be a false prophet when in truth the Lord said that His followers would be One just as He is One with the Almighty.He said that His disciples would be like Him.He said to stay awake or you won't know when your lord has come.Well you don't know.Jesus said Elijah would come again to restore everything but you cannot believe that religion is the thing that has destroyed it.I can see how hard it must be to think that it has come to this because I had a hard time believing it myself. This didn't happen over night for me. I struggled to accept it, but after many years I had to give in and do what the Lord revealed to me.It isn't something I wanted to do, it is more that I was commanded to.You think I'm doing it to be high and mighty but no, I do not want your acceptance I want the Lords acceptance.You are the one who is a false teacher.I must do as the Lord commanded me so the world will see that I honor Him.You won't get away with disobeying Jesus and the son of man.
What you should know, of all people, since you constantly try and rebuke me, is I'm always standing up for the teachings of the Messiah... and your always trying to push me down. You are ate up with attacking me, and that makes no sense, and then you want to say I'm accusing you. What in the world is your trip? Do you really think if I don't listen to you or believe your speaking for the Messiah then I don't know Him? That's the impression you give. Just answer the questions please, especially the first one. Then I will know if I can relate with you or not.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
"claims that they speak or repeat the truth of God and rejection what they say is equal to rejecting God" - What does that mean? It's not ok to repeat the words of the Messiah? And the last part - rejecting what "they" say? Who is the they? Rejecting what they themselves say or saying that someone's belief is rejecting God?

You can quote scripture all you like, but it is well demonstrated that when a person quotes scripture they also promote an interpretation of it that they believe.

If I reject your interpretation of scripture and you believe I have rejected God, then you are the same as those you attempt to ask questions of in your OP.


We can both quote Matthew 25:46 but I'll bet we both have a different interpretation of what it means and even may like a different bible translation of that verse.


If my belief of Matthew 25:46 is different than yours, do you say that if I do not agree with you, I have rejected the messiah?

Last edited by Phazelwood; 11-09-2011 at 01:31 PM..
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:26 PM
 
461 posts, read 479,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
I've invited someone who believes they are a great princely teacher who speaks words to us from the Messiah Himself. Here are the questions I have for him:

1.) Do you believe the Messiah is the Lamb that takes away our sins?
- that is the most important question and if you can't simply give a very quick answer of yes of no then don't bother answering the rest.

Quote:
Yes
2.) Do you believe you are 100% equal with the Messiah?

Quote:
If you mean One ,yes.
3.) Will you ever be 100% equal with the Messiah?
- when I say equal I mean 100% equal with no distinguishable difference between you and Him. I don't mean the same single person, just equal in every aspect.

Quote:
All I can say is what scripture says, I am One with the Lord.
Let's start with those three. If you don't answer them and continue to do as you do then that will have to assume you either have serious mental problems, or you are the exact type of person this thread is about. I believe if you really know God, of course He'd have no problem with you being real with people and answering a few questions, to help understand, like you always claim you do.
I have no mental problems.

"The son of man comes eating and drinking and people think he is madd or a drunkard."

There is a hidden meaning in that saying. See if you can find it.
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