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Old 11-15-2011, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,101,430 times
Reputation: 866

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I can see the spirit of america at work on this thread. ie: work and I'll give you something. (the same attitude among Christians who believe salvation is not a handout, either..)

But Christ teaches us to freely give. Just as the orange tree produces oranges and does not ask money for its fruits, so too we ought to give to those who are in need. Not everybody can make it on his/her own. It is better to give than to receive.


Blessings everyone,
brian
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:25 AM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,075,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson View Post
OWS is just anarchists/ communists who want total redistribution of wealth. IE, all the rich people who worked hard in school, possibly benefited from hard working parents, saved their money, paid their bills, worked hard should now turn over the fruit of their labor to lazy people who don't want to work, or think that their crummy job should pay the same as much as people who work much harder.


We have far too much give away to lazy irresponsible people today. That's what needs to stop.
How true!

Katie
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:34 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,734,849 times
Reputation: 58197
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I can see the spirit of america at work on this thread. ie: work and I'll give you something. (the same attitude among Christians who believe salvation is not a handout, either..)

But Christ teaches us to freely give. Just as the orange tree produces oranges and does not ask money for its fruits, so too we ought to give to those who are in need. Not everybody can make it on his/her own. It is better to give than to receive.


Blessings everyone,
brian
That's all well and good Brian but I've been privy to a situation lately and situations before where I see exactly what's going on with homeless people. It's drugs, it's laziness, it's everything other than just "circumstances". I agree with what Katie said in her post, she sees the cigarette/alcohol/drug soaked people asking for handouts and it's not fair to those who really are having a sincere struggle due to circumstances like loss of a job.

This situation I mentioned is so out of control and it all has to do with two thieving, lying and lazy parents who have dug themselves in so deep because of theft and drugs that their poor children are the ones who are suffering the most. And now she's pregnant again!! I've had to help with hauling them around to court dates and looking for jobs because they have no car but no one will hire them because of their records. They have done it to themselves and even when they weren't in trouble or in jail or whatever, neither one of them would work. Some people just need to be in jail and stay there. The children would be better off in foster care.

The point is, most of what you see at these food pantries or kitchens are people who are too lazy to work and live off the government as much as they possibly can and cry "oh woe is me" when they have done it to themselves. I've seen it enough now to know why they're homeless or have no money......it's drugs and laziness. You won't see the type of people like Katie and her husband at a food pantry or government agency even though they need the help because they're work ethic is too great and they will struggle through it on their own without handouts.

So I'm sorry, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the homeless any longer, it's a lifestyle choice and people like that will just drag you down with them. They may really need that handout but I can pretty much guarantee that the reason they need it is their own doing, not circumstances. What's the solution? Cut them all off!! These people need to be forced to get a job and take a shower and the only handouts they should be getting is a list of jobs to apply for. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic either but I'm close enough and seen enough to know that all this is true. I know these churches and ministries work hard for donations and volunteer a lot of their time and energy to the cause but I guarantee you that they hardly ever see any new faces....it's the same old people standing there with their hand out.

We SHOULD help others, that's not what I'm saying. I'm helping these people I mentioned all the time but I don't give them money or food....just rides to court and job hunting. Actually, they give me gas money and I take it because I know they have resources far greater than mine. She sells her food stamps and they have a child who receives social security so they manage to keep going from their handouts. See, right there is something that infuriates me......she sells her food stamps to get money and then goes around to all these food pantries and gets food because she has no food stamps left. I'm telling you, these people really know how to work the system.

It's a darn shame that we are so guilt ridden about these homeless and needy people because we're not really helping them. They need mandatory counseling, job resources and help finding a place to live rather than handouts. It shouldn't be so easy for them. And if they're mentally ill then they need to be diagnosed and put in a facility. It's a harsh reality but one that needs to be addressed, and not with handouts.
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:00 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,030,206 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
That's all well and good Brian but I've been privy to a situation lately and situations before where I see exactly what's going on with homeless people. It's drugs, it's laziness, it's everything other than just "circumstances". I agree with what Katie said in her post, she sees the cigarette/alcohol/drug soaked people asking for handouts and it's not fair to those who really are having a sincere struggle due to circumstances like loss of a job.

This situation I mentioned is so out of control and it all has to do with two thieving, lying and lazy parents who have dug themselves in so deep because of theft and drugs that their poor children are the ones who are suffering the most. And now she's pregnant again!! I've had to help with hauling them around to court dates and looking for jobs because they have no car but no one will hire them because of their records. They have done it to themselves and even when they weren't in trouble or in jail or whatever, neither one of them would work. Some people just need to be in jail and stay there. The children would be better off in foster care.

The point is, most of what you see at these food pantries or kitchens are people who are too lazy to work and live off the government as much as they possibly can and cry "oh woe is me" when they have done it to themselves. I've seen it enough now to know why they're homeless or have no money......it's drugs and laziness. You won't see the type of people like Katie and her husband at a food pantry or government agency even though they need the help because they're work ethic is too great and they will struggle through it on their own without handouts.

So I'm sorry, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the homeless any longer, it's a lifestyle choice and people like that will just drag you down with them. They may really need that handout but I can pretty much guarantee that the reason they need it is their own doing, not circumstances. What's the solution? Cut them all off!! These people need to be forced to get a job and take a shower and the only handouts they should be getting is a list of jobs to apply for. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic either but I'm close enough and seen enough to know that all this is true. I know these churches and ministries work hard for donations and volunteer a lot of their time and energy to the cause but I guarantee you that they hardly ever see any new faces....it's the same old people standing there with their hand out.

We SHOULD help others, that's not what I'm saying. I'm helping these people I mentioned all the time but I don't give them money or food....just rides to court and job hunting. Actually, they give me gas money and I take it because I know they have resources far greater than mine. She sells her food stamps and they have a child who receives social security so they manage to keep going from their handouts. See, right there is something that infuriates me......she sells her food stamps to get money and then goes around to all these food pantries and gets food because she has no food stamps left. I'm telling you, these people really know how to work the system.

It's a darn shame that we are so guilt ridden about these homeless and needy people because we're not really helping them. They need mandatory counseling, job resources and help finding a place to live rather than handouts. It shouldn't be so easy for them. And if they're mentally ill then they need to be diagnosed and put in a facility. It's a harsh reality but one that needs to be addressed, and not with handouts.
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,455 posts, read 21,176,053 times
Reputation: 17660
Where is the love? Where is the compassion? Where is the Christ in those who are so angry? I see plenty of boasting about ones own ability at survival , but very few willing to walk even for a moment in the shoes or alongside of the desperate, homeless, mentally, emotionally, unemployed, etc less fortunate among us and yes that includes the addicted ones..

I found myself at the bottom of the barrel once, and no where/no one to turn..It is humiliating enough to walk into a welfare office and ask for food stamps, but thank God they did not humiliate me any further as some on this thread would have.

Some of the hate and anger I see here from Christians hurts so much..Christ never said we had to make a judgement of the beggar to determine if he is worthy to receive our alms...I believe he says to not let the left hand know what the right hand does when giving alms..
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:57 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,030,206 times
Reputation: 17783
Oh good grief.... reality check, there is compassion the problem is our government has made it easy for individuals to abuse the system....
I have been homeless and do know what it is like.... and because of the abuse of the system it ruins it for those who really need it.

But I thank God He did not leave me there feeling sorry for myself and wanted me to not fall into the trap of becoming one dependent upon other's compassion and kept me by getting up and doing something about it !!

It has nothing to do with hate and anger, it is reality that there are those who do abuse the love and compassion of other's.... Enabling people to be this way is wrong.... I would even goes as far to say, it is sin.... because you are helping them make the choice to love their addictions, laziness, etc. !!

Jesus said, the poor would always be with us and I do believe He will lead us or those who truly need it into our lives to help themselves too get out of their situation.... been there and seen it done.... He also will give discernment to those like Ilene spoke about that truly need to turn and repent of their abuse of the system..... yet, we can thank our government for creating this problem our country is facing !!
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,101,430 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
That's all well and good Brian but I've been privy to a situation lately and situations before where I see exactly what's going on with homeless people. It's drugs, it's laziness, it's everything other than just "circumstances". I agree with what Katie said in her post, she sees the cigarette/alcohol/drug soaked people asking for handouts and it's not fair to those who really are having a sincere struggle due to circumstances like loss of a job.

This situation I mentioned is so out of control and it all has to do with two thieving, lying and lazy parents who have dug themselves in so deep because of theft and drugs that their poor children are the ones who are suffering the most. And now she's pregnant again!! I've had to help with hauling them around to court dates and looking for jobs because they have no car but no one will hire them because of their records. They have done it to themselves and even when they weren't in trouble or in jail or whatever, neither one of them would work. Some people just need to be in jail and stay there. The children would be better off in foster care.

The point is, most of what you see at these food pantries or kitchens are people who are too lazy to work and live off the government as much as they possibly can and cry "oh woe is me" when they have done it to themselves. I've seen it enough now to know why they're homeless or have no money......it's drugs and laziness. You won't see the type of people like Katie and her husband at a food pantry or government agency even though they need the help because they're work ethic is too great and they will struggle through it on their own without handouts.

So I'm sorry, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the homeless any longer, it's a lifestyle choice and people like that will just drag you down with them. They may really need that handout but I can pretty much guarantee that the reason they need it is their own doing, not circumstances. What's the solution? Cut them all off!! These people need to be forced to get a job and take a shower and the only handouts they should be getting is a list of jobs to apply for. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic either but I'm close enough and seen enough to know that all this is true. I know these churches and ministries work hard for donations and volunteer a lot of their time and energy to the cause but I guarantee you that they hardly ever see any new faces....it's the same old people standing there with their hand out.

We SHOULD help others, that's not what I'm saying. I'm helping these people I mentioned all the time but I don't give them money or food....just rides to court and job hunting. Actually, they give me gas money and I take it because I know they have resources far greater than mine. She sells her food stamps and they have a child who receives social security so they manage to keep going from their handouts. See, right there is something that infuriates me......she sells her food stamps to get money and then goes around to all these food pantries and gets food because she has no food stamps left. I'm telling you, these people really know how to work the system.

It's a darn shame that we are so guilt ridden about these homeless and needy people because we're not really helping them. They need mandatory counseling, job resources and help finding a place to live rather than handouts. It shouldn't be so easy for them. And if they're mentally ill then they need to be diagnosed and put in a facility. It's a harsh reality but one that needs to be addressed, and not with handouts.
Hi Ilene,

I'm not saying that the "motives" for asking for assistance are not always "pure." I'm just saying that our culture molds the way we see life more than we know.

But I'm trying to put things in a different light. After all, what's wrong with helping people who are different from us? We can't expect everyone to think like we do! If some people are not able to get a job, I don't see any harm in that. Most of us are living pretty well: a house with heating, a warm bed, a refridgerator, a car even! Did you know that not everybody in the world has a car?


Blessings,
brian
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:26 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,734,849 times
Reputation: 58197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
Where is the love? Where is the compassion? Where is the Christ in those who are so angry? I see plenty of boasting about ones own ability at survival , but very few willing to walk even for a moment in the shoes or alongside of the desperate, homeless, mentally, emotionally, unemployed, etc less fortunate among us and yes that includes the addicted ones..

I found myself at the bottom of the barrel once, and no where/no one to turn..It is humiliating enough to walk into a welfare office and ask for food stamps, but thank God they did not humiliate me any further as some on this thread would have.

Some of the hate and anger I see here from Christians hurts so much..Christ never said we had to make a judgement of the beggar to determine if he is worthy to receive our alms...I believe he says to not let the left hand know what the right hand does when giving alms..
Well I'm still at the bottom of the barrel but I'll be damned if I'll let anyone take advantage of me or my family any longer. People like what I mentioned in my post will suck the life right out of you if you let them. It's called tough love Miss Blue, and what they need are all the things that I mentioned like counseling and job placement, not handouts and sending them on their way until the next week. That's just a band-aid, not a fix.

There's a lot of homelessness around the country and I'm not saying that they are all sheisters who are deliberately working the system but most of them are. And like I said, if mental illness is the problem then they need to be in a facility and not wandering the streets. People need to care enough to take the time to diagnose the problems, not just put a band-aid on it. It's a real dilemma that's not going away so whatever we're doing is not working obviously.

I don't see any anger or hatred, I see reality of the situation in these posts.
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:56 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,734,849 times
Reputation: 58197
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi Ilene,

I'm not saying that the "motives" for asking for assistance are not always "pure." I'm just saying that our culture molds the way we see life more than we know.
These people aren't asking for assistance, they're demanding it. I've seen the truth behind homelessness several times now and what type of people they are....it ain't pretty. And yes, some of them are mentally unstable but from what I've seen that's in direct relation to drug abuse. Where's the love you say?? It's got to be handled properly or there is no love in it. This woman that I mentioned has no one to turn to because she brought it on herself by stealing from family members and pawning everything to buy drugs for her husband and herself.

Why do I help? Because they are temporarily living with my cousin who also needs my help. Otherwise, I wouldn't lift a finger except to help those poor children. That's why I do it, for the children. I'm sick and tired of people taking advantage of others all because they're too lazy to take care of themselves and their children. You get put in the line of fire enough times then you're going to get shot eventually and that's what has happened to me.....I'm too close to it. When I see a real homeless person wandering the streets I wonder what they did to get that way, not "oh my goodness look at that poor homeless person"......it's cause and effect.

Quote:
But I'm trying to put things in a different light. After all, what's wrong with helping people who are different from us? We can't expect everyone to think like we do! If some people are not able to get a job, I don't see any harm in that. Most of us are living pretty well: a house with heating, a warm bed, a refridgerator, a car even! Did you know that not everybody in the world has a car?
There's no way to put it in a different light except to do what is mostly being done, put a band-aid on it and hope it goes away. These people don't WANT real help, they just want their handouts and to be on their merry little way. Thieving, drugging and working the system. So you're faulting me for having a car when I've worked hard all of my life and now I don't have a pot to Moderator cut: inappropriate in because I'm on disability?

I'm financially in worse shape than I've ever been in my entire life but I use my "car" to help these people who may or may not deserve a second chance, that remains to be seen. I don't have to do anything. As a matter of fact, I don't think I will any longer. It's all in vain, right? They'll get out of the trouble they're in eventually and get through mandatory drug rehab only to go right back to thieving and drugging again, putting those children in harm's way again. All I can do is hope that the mother goes back to jail so maybe those children will have a chance at a decent life with foster parents. OR, I can keep helping and hoping that they will change. In my experience, they never do.....not for long anyway. Not a hand-out, but a hand-up......that's the ticket. Some people just don't want to do better.

Last edited by june 7th; 11-16-2011 at 07:32 AM..
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:14 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,030,206 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
These people aren't asking for assistance, they're demanding it. I've seen the truth behind homelessness several times now and what type of people they are....it ain't pretty. And yes, some of them are mentally unstable but from what I've seen that's in direct relation to drug abuse. Where's the love you say?? It's got to be handled properly or there is no love in it. This woman that I mentioned has no one to turn to because she brought it on herself by stealing from family members and pawning everything to buy drugs for her husband and herself.

Why do I help? Because they are temporarily living with my cousin who also needs my help. Otherwise, I wouldn't lift a finger except to help those poor children. That's why I do it, for the children. I'm sick and tired of people taking advantage of others all because they're too lazy to take care of themselves and their children. You get put in the line of fire enough times then you're going to get shot eventually and that's what has happened to me.....I'm too close to it. When I see a real homeless person wandering the streets I wonder what they did to get that way, not "oh my goodness look at that poor homeless person"......it's cause and effect.



There's no way to put it in a different light except to do what is mostly being done, put a band-aid on it and hope it goes away. These people don't WANT real help, they just want their handouts and to be on their merry little way. Thieving, drugging and working the system. So you're faulting me for having a car when I've worked hard all of my life and now I don't have a pot to **** in because I'm on disability?

I'm financially in worse shape than I've ever been in my entire life but I use my "car" to help these people who may or may not deserve a second chance, that remains to be seen. I don't have to do anything. As a matter of fact, I don't think I will any longer. It's all in vain, right? They'll get out of the trouble they're in eventually and get through mandatory drug rehab only to go right back to thieving and drugging again, putting those children in harm's way again. All I can do is hope that the mother goes back to jail so maybe those children will have a chance at a decent life with foster parents. OR, I can keep helping and hoping that they will change. In my experience, they never do.....not for long anyway. Not a hand-out, but a hand-up......that's the ticket. Some people just don't want to do better.


You know our news did a interview with some homeless individuals and people would be shocked, as I was !! Couple of these individuals said, there's a sucker coming their way every minute, and one even went as far to say he made a six digit yearly income off begging from the streets, mall's, and with the street signs.... why did he need to work when people were so free to give it away !! Can you believe it.... I was totally shocked !!

It sure made me think and pray for discernment with helping some of these individuals.....

And I have had people come for help only to find out one of them couldn't make her rent every month so I helped her out only to find out why she couldn't make her rent, she was buying drugs. Well, I quit giving and she quit coming and never did change.
Another couple abused our church with their lies and manipulating the kindness of the people to get their money till the Lord gave wisdom to what these individuals were doing and stopped the money hand out and they just moved on to another Church in the area !!

Come on, reality is reality..... and what is sadder is a lot of them will use their children to get their hand out's !!

Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 11-15-2011 at 08:24 AM..
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