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Old 11-21-2011, 04:14 PM
 
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No, faith comes before regeneration. It is the walking in this faith that, though it doesn't author regeneration it does facilitate it.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Lokk at John 3:3...What does it state?...It is impossible for the dead to know anything...It is impossible for the dead to hear and respond...Regeneration is bringing to life from the dead...The Gospel is spiritual, but we are carnal, the Gospel is spiritually decerned but we are unspiritual...John 3:3 states: Unless a man is born from above, he is unable to understand the Reign of Hawyaw.....



I simply found the Truth by going deeper into the Word...
I agree.

“ God is spirit…” (Joh 4:24).

"…The words that I have spoken to you are spirit…” (Joh 6:63).


" Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the gifts bestowed on us by God.

And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual.

Those who are unspiritual do not receive the gifts of God's Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. " (1 Cor 2:12-14).
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:45 PM
 
2,675 posts, read 1,074,864 times
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Originally Posted by kids in america_ View Post
I agree.

“ God is spirit…” (Joh 4:24).

"…The words that I have spoken to you are spirit…” (Joh 6:63).


" Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the gifts bestowed on us by God.

And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual.

Those who are unspiritual do not receive the gifts of God's Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. " (1 Cor 2:12-14).
Faith precedes regeneration. To be regenerated is to be born again. Your last post was dead on. Faith is doing.

Katie
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:49 PM
 
2,675 posts, read 1,074,864 times
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Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
No, faith comes before regeneration. It is the walking in this faith that, though it doesn't author regeneration it does facilitate it.
Yes faith comes before regeneration. We are justified by faith. You cannot be regenerated or born again without faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God. God wouldn't regenerate someone He wasn't pleased with.

Thanks Sunny.

Katie
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:54 PM
 
666 posts, read 263,682 times
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Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Faith precedes regeneration. To be regenerated is to be born again. Your last post was dead on. Faith is doing.

Katie
Faith comes from ‘god’. Regeneration comes from ‘god’. Katie really it’s all one and the same thing. These things come from ‘god’. ‘God’ is ONE [Deu 6:4]. In my honest opinion it doesn’t matter which one come before the other. Because everything is heading in one direction to accomplish one goal. The goal is to change the carnal image of man into the spiritual image of ‘god’. Faith and regeneration both involves a change of life.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:16 PM
 
23,166 posts, read 11,363,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Faith precedes regeneration. To be regenerated is to be born again. Your last post was dead on. Faith is doing.
Katie
There is no one still alive in their physical body who is "born again." The only way to be "born again" is to die and be reborn as Spirit. That which is born of flesh is flesh (and remains so). That which is born of Spirit is Spirit, period. Unless you can flit around like the wind you are NOT "born again."

John 3:5-8 King James Version (KJV)

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:44 PM
 
2,675 posts, read 1,074,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kids in america_ View Post
Faith comes from ‘god’. Regeneration comes from ‘god’. Katie really it’s all one and the same thing. These things come from ‘god’. ‘God’ is ONE [Deu 6:4]. In my honest opinion it doesn’t matter which one come before the other. Because everything is heading in one direction to accomplish one goal. The goal is to change the carnal image of man into the spiritual image of ‘god’. Faith and regeneration both involves a change of life.
Yes it does make a difference. Those who believe regeneration/born again precedes faith are grossly misunderstanding scripture. These calvinists believe that we are so totally depraved that we are incapable of choosing God.

I agree that God draws us to Him, but not by the direct operation of the Holy Spirit separate and apart from the word. That limits the power of God. It is the same as saying the gospel isn't powerful enough to convict a person and give them the faith needed to respond to the gospel. We are told in Romans 1:16 that the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. Also see Eph. 1:13 the gospel of your salvation.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Romans 10:17.
We do not get faith by the direct operation of the Holy Spirit.

So do you believe that God didn't give us a gospel powerful enough to save us?

Katie
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:55 PM
 
2,675 posts, read 1,074,864 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is no one still alive in their physical body who is "born again." The only way to be "born again" is to die and be reborn as Spirit. That which is born of flesh is flesh (and remains so). That which is born of Spirit is Spirit, period. Unless you can flit around like the wind you are NOT "born again."

John 3:5-8 King James Version (KJV)

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
I respectfully disagree with you. Being born of the Spirit simply means the Holy SPIRIT is doing the regenerating. When you are immersed in water, you are born again, made new by the Holy Spirit. See Titus 3:3-5. Also read Romans 6.

I appreciate your opinion Mystic, but I think you are seeing it different than I am.

Katie
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:42 PM
 
23,166 posts, read 11,363,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is no one still alive in their physical body who is "born again." The only way to be "born again" is to die and be reborn as Spirit. That which is born of flesh is flesh (and remains so). That which is born of Spirit is Spirit, period. Unless you can flit around like the wind you are NOT "born again."

John 3:5-8 King James Version (KJV)

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
I respectfully disagree with you. Being born of the Spirit simply means the Holy SPIRIT is doing the regenerating.
I agree . . . but the Holy Spirit is doing it for all of us . . . our entire species as the result of Christ's rebirth as Spirit. We are now "born of God" because of Christ and if we are justified and sanctified. . . . we will be reborn as Spirit as Christ was.
Quote:
When you are immersed in water, you are born again, made new by the Holy Spirit. See Titus 3:3-5. Also read Romans 6.
This is a process throughout our entire life of following Christ's commands to "love God and each other" by exercising self-control over our negative emotions and urges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
"Re-Generation" is what Christ achieved for our entire species . . . He began a new "spiritual generation" upon His rebirth as Spirit and making His Holy Spirit available to us ALL within our consciousness (embryo Spirit). The "born again" believers have it out of order. We are "pregnant" (i.e., begotten "born of God") . . . not reborn . . . UNTIL our physical death and rebirth as Spirit (like Christ). We can't be "reborn" until we are "unborn" (die) from this life. Flesh is born as Flesh . . Spirit is born as Spirit.
Quote:
I appreciate your opinion Mystic, but I think you are seeing it different than I am.
Katie
We definitely see it differently Katie . . . Ironcally . . . I see it as a very real aspect of our reality . . . you seem to see it all as part of a magical, mystical spiritual abstraction. Who is the Mystic here?
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:51 PM
 
2,282 posts, read 897,637 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is no one still alive in their physical body who is "born again." The only way to be "born again" is to die and be reborn as Spirit. That which is born of flesh is flesh (and remains so). That which is born of Spirit is Spirit, period. Unless you can flit around like the wind you are NOT "born again."

John 3:5-8 King James Version (KJV)

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
We who are born again do experience the Spirit moving through us like a wind as Jesus said He would. Supernatural. All who have the True Testimony of Jesus, not just the philosophical appreciation of Him experience the same. It is written, "We carry about the treasure [of eternal life] in earthen vessels because His is the Power and the Glory of a New Birth in our spirits."

Just what Jesus have you been talking about? The good philosophical one or the one of who gives Power and Gory to be like Him and to follow Him? I would say take Him at His Word, "Marvel not, you must be born again."
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