U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-14-2011, 04:07 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,078,157 times
Reputation: 228

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
When coverts first come to Jesus Christ and surrender their life to Him , the only faith that this person may have is the gift of faith that the Lord gives , because the new convert that come to Jesus will be challenged by the dark spirit and be one of the worst people on the earth and need prayer from others , but as Jesus cleans the person , the confidence in the Lord will come as a witness of Jesus builds their faith and as Jesus anoints the convert with His Spirit .... Jesus Spirit will help the person grow in faith for their confidence of the Lord ..... Still this gift of faith can still bless a child of God in areas where new things come up and Jesus does a new work to bless others through them...
I agree that faith is a gift from God. It comes by hearing His word. There is no other way that we can get faith according to the scriptures. God's word is what draws us to Him.

I see no scripture anywhere that says faith comes as a result of the direct operation of the Holy Spirit apart from the word of God.

I agree that man is without excuse. We are all born with a built in awareness of God. We see Him in everything around us. But this is not faith, and it is something that all men are given, not just a certain group of chosen individuals.

Romans 1:19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Katie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-14-2011, 04:28 PM
 
910 posts, read 1,042,831 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Does Regeneration Come Before Faith?


John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

According to John 3:36, a sinner must receive life before he can believe. According to Jesus and John, a man must believe before he can receive life.


Ephesians 1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

According to this verse, sinners are active participants (after you heard the word, having believed). The hearing comes first, then the believing, then the sealing. The sealing of the Spirit takes place after faith is excersized.

If regeneration takes place prior to faith, at what point do they become sons? Is not regeneration synonymous with sonship? Is it possible to have an unbelieving and unsealed son without the earnest of his inheritance?

Galatians 3:6 says: "ye are all the children (sons) of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

In John 1:12, the power to become a son of God was granted to as many as received Him.

Sonship in Scripture is always the consequence of faith.

God's work of regeneration takes place in response to faith!

Regeneration before faith cannot be supported by the truth of Scripture.

Katie
Katie,

I remember Christ using the phrase 'regeneration' when he was promising of abundance in his 2nd advent. Regeneration in that light means re-incarnation- another appearance of a spirit in the world albeit in another body. Re-gen-arate. Simple, why make it more difficult?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2011, 06:01 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,808,279 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Hi Twin,

My OP fired off before I had a chance to finish. I don't know if you read the whole thing before responding.

Could you please give me a scripture that shows repentance comes before faith? I've always believed it to be the other way around.

Katie
Just read the verse as it is spoken and see what is mentioned first:

Isaiah 59:20
“The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the LORD.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.(the gift of the Holy Spirit is faith)

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Acts 20:21
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20
I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2011, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
8,021 posts, read 7,053,519 times
Reputation: 13448
Katie, you're trying to over analyze. Faith is God given. Regeneration is God given. As a result of faith that God gives, we are born again by God, our names written in the Book of life by God, we are decreed Children of God, by God, disciples of Jesus, servants of God. We are declared righteous/ justified in God's sight, clothed in Jesus righteousness, given eternal life, bonded to Jesus Christ, given the Holy Spirit. Its basically a complete package, a total instantaneous change that God makes in us when we are brought to faith.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2011, 11:17 PM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Does Regeneration Come Before Faith?


John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

According to John 3:36, a sinner must receive life before he can believe. According to Jesus and John, a man must believe before he can receive life.


Ephesians 1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

According to this verse, sinners are active participants (after you heard the word, having believed). The hearing comes first, then the believing, then the sealing. The sealing of the Spirit takes place after faith is excersized.

If regeneration takes place prior to faith, at what point do they become sons? Is not regeneration synonymous with sonship? Is it possible to have an unbelieving and unsealed son without the earnest of his inheritance?

Galatians 3:6 says: "ye are all the children (sons) of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

In John 1:12, the power to become a son of God was granted to as many as received Him.

Sonship in Scripture is always the consequence of faith.

God's work of regeneration takes place in response to faith!

Regeneration before faith cannot be supported by the truth of Scripture.

Katie
Your Logic and Reason is still flawed...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2011, 11:21 PM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Hi Twin,

My OP fired off before I had a chance to finish. I don't know if you read the whole thing before responding.

Could you please give me a scripture that shows repentance comes before faith? I've always believed it to be the other way around.

Katie
All you'll get is the sign of Jonah...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2011, 11:27 PM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No. Regeneration does not precede faith. Regeneration refers to being born again which follows faith in Christ. It does not precede it.

Acts 16:31 'Believe (have faith) in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved (as a result of being born again - regenerated.) The Greek word translated as regenerated is Palingenesias and refers to a new birth through faith in Christ.

Those who believe that regeneration precedes faith don't understand that the Holy Spirit in His ministry of common grace makes the gospel message understandable to the unbeliever so that he can make a decision concerning Christ. The common grace ministry of the Holy Spirit includes His convicting the world (unbeliever) of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16:8-11).
Regeneration does come before Faith...You must be regenerated in order to believe the Gospel....I would say that they come at the same time...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2011, 11:30 PM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post


Agree 100%

There are those who believe we are incabable of choosing Jesus and need to be regenerated before we can even have faith. There are many scriptures that refute this doctrine.

Katie
There are no scriptures that refute it...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2011, 04:38 AM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Regeneration does come before Faith...You must be regenerated in order to believe the Gospel....I would say that they come at the same time...


Richard, the pre-faith work of the Holy Spirit is not regeneration, but rather, the pre-faith work of the Holy Spirit is Common Grace. This pre-faith work of the Holy Spirit is described in John 16:8-11. Study if you will, the doctrine of common grace. In the case of the gospel, in common grace God the Holy Spirit takes up the slack for the lack of a human spirit in the unbeliever. When it comes to the gospel message, the Holy Spirit steps in and makes the gospel perspicacious to the unbeliever so that he can make a decision about the gospel.

Time after time, the Scriptures state that a person must believe in Christ in order to be saved. Faith precedes being born again. A person is saved through faith in Christ Jesus. The moment a person believes in Christ, he is born again. Faith and regeneration are very nearly simultaneous. But being regenerated depends on the unbeliever placing his faith in Christ.

Acts 16:31 makes that clear. 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.'

John 3:15 says, 'that whoever believes in Him have eternal life.' It does NOT say 'that whoever has eternal life may believe in Him.'


John 20:31 'But these have been written (the gospel) that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.'

Excerpt:
Doctrine of Common Grace

Common Grace is grace that the entire human receives when God the Holy Spirit makes the
Gospel message, which is a spiritual language, understandable to the spiritually dead unbeliever
in order that they can make a decision to believe in Christ or reject Him for salvation.
Common Grace is given to everyone in the human race.

Bible Doctrine Resource.com » Doctrine of Common Grace


You might also take a look at the following.

DOES REGENERATION PRECEDE FAITH
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2011, 07:49 AM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Richard, the pre-faith work of the Holy Spirit is not regeneration, but rather, the pre-faith work of the Holy Spirit is Common Grace. This pre-faith work of the Holy Spirit is described in John 16:8-11. Study if you will, the doctrine of common grace. In the case of the gospel, in common grace God the Holy Spirit takes up the slack for the lack of a human spirit in the unbeliever. When it comes to the gospel message, the Holy Spirit steps in and makes the gospel perspicacious to the unbeliever so that he can make a decision about the gospel.

Time after time, the Scriptures state that a person must believe in Christ in order to be saved. Faith precedes being born again. A person is saved through faith in Christ Jesus. The moment a person believes in Christ, he is born again. Faith and regeneration are very nearly simultaneous. But being regenerated depends on the unbeliever placing his faith in Christ.

Acts 16:31 makes that clear. 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.'

John 3:15 says, 'that whoever believes in Him have eternal life.' It does NOT say 'that whoever has eternal life may believe in Him.'


John 20:31 'But these have been written (the gospel) that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.'

Excerpt:
Doctrine of Common Grace

Common Grace is grace that the entire human receives when God the Holy Spirit makes the
Gospel message, which is a spiritual language, understandable to the spiritually dead unbeliever
in order that they can make a decision to believe in Christ or reject Him for salvation.
Common Grace is given to everyone in the human race.

Bible Doctrine Resource.com » Doctrine of Common Grace


You might also take a look at the following.

DOES REGENERATION PRECEDE FAITH
Here we go again...trying to take an ounce of credit for Salvation...Regeneration is bringing life from death...And you misunderstand what common Grace is...One must be made alive in order to hear the Gospel...To hear the voice of Jeshua...In Romans it says believe and be saved...Many are called few are chosen...the Gospel Call goes out to the whole world, so that none have an excuse, however, only those that the Message is meant for will respond...The fact that Hawyaw does not destroy the world now with all it's debauchery is be cause of common Grace...There is a theme of temporal Salvation and Eternal Salvation running through the Scriptures...Temporal Judgement and Eternal Judgement...Jeshua came temporally for the world but eternally for those that have ears...Your theory still puts a small part of Salvation into mans hands...A little credit for making the right decision...Making man master of his own destiny...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top