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Old 11-14-2011, 02:10 PM
 
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Does Regeneration Come Before Faith?


John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

According to John 3:36, a sinner must receive life before he can believe. According to Jesus and John, a man must believe before he can receive life.


Ephesians 1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

According to this verse, sinners are active participants (after you heard the word, having believed). The hearing comes first, then the believing, then the sealing. The sealing of the Spirit takes place after faith is excersized.

If regeneration takes place prior to faith, at what point do they become sons? Is not regeneration synonymous with sonship? Is it possible to have an unbelieving and unsealed son without the earnest of his inheritance?

Galatians 3:6 says: "ye are all the children (sons) of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

In John 1:12, the power to become a son of God was granted to as many as received Him.

Sonship in Scripture is always the consequence of faith.

God's work of regeneration takes place in response to faith!

Regeneration before faith cannot be supported by the truth of Scripture.

Katie

Last edited by katiemygirl; 11-14-2011 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Florida
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God grants faith, God causes regeneration. Salvation is of God, not of man. That thought bothers the carnal minded person. It used to bother me.

Sad that the Christians in this forum cannot get past the milk of the Word. Very unfortunate. These are the ABC's of faith and some people are still spending all their time there because of wolves in sheep's clothing.

Remember that place in scripture where it says Jesus could not do any miracle because of their unbelief. I think the unbelief on this forum grieves the Holy Spirit and dries the place up. Too bad.

I can assure you that where people preach Christ and yet hate and condemn their brothers with whom they disagree on various points of doctrine, God is not working there. I can't say that I blame God for withdrawing. It's similar to the way we feel when our kids constantly bicker and backbite.
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:21 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
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Repentance comes before faith.
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Repentance comes before faith.
Hi Twin,

My OP fired off before I had a chance to finish. I don't know if you read the whole thing before responding.

Could you please give me a scripture that shows repentance comes before faith? I've always believed it to be the other way around.

Katie
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:37 PM
 
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Heartsong;21711841]God grants faith, God causes regeneration. Salvation is of God, not of man. That thought bothers the carnal minded person. It used to bother me.

God does the regenerating. I agree salvation is of God, not man.

Sad that the Christians in this forum cannot get past the milk of the Word. Very unfortunate. These are the ABC's of faith and some people are still spending all their time there because of wolves in sheep's clothing.

I don't want to judge anyone on the forum and accuse them of not getting past the milk of the word. I don't think any of us has enough information about anyone here to say where they are in the christian walk. I want to hear what everyone has to say, and I will try my best to respect their view. I pray others will do the same. Let's discuss the scriptures and how we view them, and not make personal judgements about how others see things. Sound good?

Remember that place in scripture where it says Jesus could not do any miracle because of their unbelief. I think the unbelief on this forum grieves the Holy Spirit and dries the place up. Too bad.
I can assure you that where people preach Christ and yet hate and condemn their brothers with whom they disagree on various points of doctrine, God is not working there. I can't say that I blame God for withdrawing. It's similar to the way we feel when our kids constantly bicker and backbite.

The best way to stop the condemning of other's opinions is to not do it ourselves. Set the example, and everyone else will follow (I hope )

So what say you about the scriptures I posted? What are your views of those passages specifically?

Katie
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:48 PM
 
20,296 posts, read 15,638,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
Does Regeneration Come Before Faith?


John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

According to John 3:36, a sinner must receive life before he can believe. According to Jesus and John, a man must believe before he can receive life.


Ephesians 1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

According to this verse, sinners are active participants (after you heard the word, having believed). The hearing comes first, then the believing, then the sealing. The sealing of the Spirit takes place after faith is excersized.

If regeneration takes place prior to faith, at what point do they become sons? Is not regeneration synonymous with sonship? Is it possible to have an unbelieving and unsealed son without the earnest of his inheritance?

Galatians 3:6 says: "ye are all the children (sons) of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

In John 1:12, the power to become a son of God was granted to as many as received Him.

Sonship in Scripture is always the consequence of faith.

God's work of regeneration takes place in response to faith!

Regeneration before faith cannot be supported by the truth of Scripture.

Katie
No. Regeneration does not precede faith. Regeneration refers to being born again which follows faith in Christ. It does not precede it.

Acts 16:31 'Believe (have faith) in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved (as a result of being born again - regenerated.) The Greek word translated as regenerated is Palingenesias and refers to a new birth through faith in Christ.

Those who believe that regeneration precedes faith don't understand that the Holy Spirit in His ministry of common grace makes the gospel message understandable to the unbeliever so that he can make a decision concerning Christ. The common grace ministry of the Holy Spirit includes His convicting the world (unbeliever) of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16:8-11).

Last edited by Mike555; 11-14-2011 at 03:06 PM..
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:49 PM
 
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When coverts first come to Jesus Christ and surrender their life to Him , the only faith that this person may have is the gift of faith that the Lord gives , because the new convert that come to Jesus will be challenged by the dark spirit and be one of the worst people on the earth and need prayer from others , but as Jesus cleans the person , the confidence in the Lord will come as a witness of Jesus builds their faith and as Jesus anoints the convert with His Spirit .... Jesus Spirit will help the person grow in faith for their confidence of the Lord ..... Still this gift of faith can still bless a child of God in areas where new things come up and Jesus does a new work to bless others through them...
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Hi Katie -

I think this question will probably pan out like the chicken/egg question with some saying one thing and others saying the opposite. Perhaps we should ask, what is it that brings a person to the point of repentance? Scriptures say it is the kindness of God the leads to repentance. But that is slightly vague.

I find it difficult to get very far in any meaningful discussion on this forum with the constant barrage of paranoid, condemning comments that people are bombarded with -- sorry. All this constant talk of who IS is IS NOT really saved,,, people declaring others to be children of Satan, etc... these are serious problems that will continue to stifle this forum for as long as they continue.

I can see that you'd like to get past that, which is admirable and encouraging.


Back to your original question - I keep God's sovereignty in mind because there is so much emphasis in the scriptures about the fact that we are not saved by works. Our good works are a result of our having been saved. But some will say, doesn't every person on earth have some good works? To which I say, Jesus is the light that lights every man/person who comes into the world. And also, I believe God has already granted forgiveness to all people -- but many do not even know about it, or even realize what has already been done on their behalf. When they SEE HIM, they will believe and they will worship Christ.
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:02 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,078,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No. Regeneration does not precede faith. Regeneration refers to being born again which follows faith in Christ. It does not precede it.

Acts 16:31 'Believe (have faith) in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved (as a result of being born again - regenerated.) The Greek word translated as regenerated is Palingenesias and refers to a new birth through faith in Christ.

Those who believe that regeneration precedes faith don't understand that the Holy Spirit in His ministry of common grace makes the gospel message understandable to the unbeliever so that he can make a decision concerning Christ. The common grace ministry of the Holy Spirit includes His convicting the world (unbeliever) of the sin of unbelieve, of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16:8-11).


Agree 100%

There are those who believe we are incabable of choosing Jesus and need to be regenerated before we can even have faith. There are many scriptures that refute this doctrine.

Katie
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:36 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 2,078,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Hi Katie -

I think this question will probably pan out like the chicken/egg question with some saying one thing and others saying the opposite. Perhaps we should ask, what is it that brings a person to the point of repentance? Scriptures say it is the kindness of God the leads to repentance. But that is slightly vague.

I find it difficult to get very far in any meaningful discussion on this forum with the constant barrage of paranoid, condemning comments that people are bombarded with -- sorry. All this constant talk of who IS is IS NOT really saved,,, people declaring others to be children of Satan, etc... these are serious problems that will continue to stifle this forum for as long as they continue.

I can see that you'd like to get past that, which is admirable and encouraging.

Back to your original question - I keep God's sovereignty in mind because there is so much emphasis in the scriptures about the fact that we are not saved by works. Our good works are a result of our having been saved. But some will say, doesn't every person on earth have some good works? To which I say, Jesus is the light that lights every man/person who comes into the world. And also, I believe God has already granted forgiveness to all people -- but many do not even know about it, or even realize what has already been done on their behalf. When they SEE HIM, they will believe and they will worship Christ.
Hi Heart,

I fully expect people to disagree about the topic.

I like your question, "What brings a person to repentance." Twin posted that repentance comes before faith. There are scriptures that place repentance ahead of faith in the sentence order, but I don't think that proves repentance must necessarily come first. Something has to motivate that repentance, and I believe faith does that.

Yes, there is a lot of emphasis on works in the Bible. The trick is to keep "works" in the context of the various passages. There are many kinds of works, and I don't believe Paul ever suggested that no works at all could play a part in salvation. Paul said we are justified by faith, and faith is a work.

Faith is a work, and by grace we are justified through faith. People have reasoned it out in their minds that if faith is a work, then regeneration must come before faith. Otherwise they would be taking an active part in their salvation. I get that, but I don't agree with it.

There is no possible way that regeneration can come before faith according to John 3:36, Eph. 1:13. It is impossible to be born again before one has faith. No scripture that I know of lends itself to that doctrine.

I also believe that Jesus gave His life for all men, but it is up to man to accept or reject His gift of salvation.

Calling people names or saying they are not saved is WRONG! I will be the first one to report anyone who gets offensive, or mean-spirited on this thread. We claim to be christians. Then let's act like christians.

Katie

Last edited by katiemygirl; 11-14-2011 at 04:09 PM..
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